Protein supplement recommendations

[BaGearA]

Just now, Dappere said:

Understood, but that assumes the OP has a clear target for their protein intake. Your question made me realise we're dishing out lots of good advice but missing a simple starter guide. Saying a product has 20g of protein per serving is all well and good, but it's a bit meaningless without the bigger picture.

At 67kg, you're on 2.3g of protein per kg of body weight, which is pretty steep. Curious to hear what your training schedule looks like to warrant that level of intake.

Switched to an all meat diet in Dec ( not the whole fad thing , rather to see what influence it has on my diabetes ) 

 

Been recommended to me by my doc for years but now fully into it. 

 

Tried 100% meat since 7 Dec but worked in about 50 grams of nuts everyday( since 19 dec ) cause I started feeling very flat. 

 

So its more lifestyle than training demand , train about 5 hours every week. ( wish it was more but life is pretty upside down now ) 

 

Sugar is much more consistent and lower ave , doing a wide panel at the end of feb to see what bigger effect it has had. 

[JayLow]

Supplementation is very subjective, unless it's medically prescribed or recommended because of high (10+ hours per week) training loads, so find what works for you but don't feel like you are missing out on performance. First, get enough sleep (not enough people understand how essential this is), then eat a balanced diet of whole foods (balanced is also quite subjective, depending on your own body), then train regularly, then start thinking about supps.

Supps marketers makes it feel like you're missing out on optimal performance if you aren't taking their product, and it takes effort to shut down those voices.

Edited February 2 by JayLow
grammar

[Dappere]

8 minutes ago, JayLow said:

This is a great example of one of those hyped up supplements with very little science backing it up. Currently most of the science is funded by the industry itself, and there aren't a lot of RCT human studies to back the claims. It's very expensive, and it might not even work, because it seems to get broken down into aminos in the GI system in any case.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/collagen/
 

Certainly, it's a keen observation that the industry is often motivated to research products like collagen supplements, primarily to meet the stringent regulatory demands for marketing and sales. This involves ensuring products are safe, contaminant-free, and produced according to good manufacturing practices (GMP). Additionally, precise labelling and the substantiation of health claims with scientific evidence are required. Without this industry-led research, there'd be little information to assess collagen supplements' health benefits, underlining the balance between commercial pursuits and regulatory standards designed to protect consumers.

[Jewbacca]

40 minutes ago, JayLow said:

Supplementation is very subjective if it's not medically prescribed or recommended because of tremendous (10+ hours per week) training loads, so find what works for you but don't feel like you are missing out on performance. First, get enough sleep (not enough people understand how essential this is), then eat a balanced diet of whole foods (balanced is also quite subjective, depending on your own body), then train regularly, then start thinking about supps.

Supps marketers makes it feel like you're missing out on optimal performance if you aren't taking their product, and it takes effort to shut down those voices.

Sleep is super important, but this spreads over to REST in general.

Not enough people have an active rest week every 3 or four weeks. They just train high volume for months and wonder why they are always flat and plateau hard with their gainz.

Supplements WITH a well managed fatigue load are great, supplements to try and boost overtraining or my favourite, supplement actual training, just don't work.

It's also a VERY fly by night culture. I am young enough but old enough to remember the 6kg of creatine a day phase (hyperbole for those that are literal) that was going to make everyone a Springbok. I see how well that turned out long term 

OP, whatever you do, just make sure it's a balanced in take with lifestyle, exercise, rest and diet

Edited February 2 by Jewbacca
Hyperbole disclaimer

[JayLow]

2 minutes ago, Dappere said:

Certainly, it's a keen observation that the industry is often motivated to research products like collagen supplements, primarily to meet the stringent regulatory demands for marketing and sales. This involves ensuring products are safe, contaminant-free, and produced according to good manufacturing practices (GMP). Additionally, precise labelling and the substantiation of health claims with scientific evidence are required. Without this industry-led research, there'd be little information to assess collagen supplements' health benefits, underlining the balance between commercial pursuits and regulatory standards designed to protect consumers.

So true! Which is why you often find this kind of disclaimer on supps: "This unregistered medicine has not been evaluated for its quality, safety or intended use"

[JayLow]

8 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Sleep is super important, but this spreads over to REST in general.

Not enough people have an active rest week every 3 or four weeks. They just train high volume for months and wonder why they are always flat and plateau hard with their gainz.

Supplements WITH a well managed fatigue load are great, supplements to try and boost overtraining or my favourite, supplement actual training, just don't work.

It's also a VERY fly by night culture. I am young enough but old enough to remember the 6kg of creatine a day phase that was going to make everyone a Springbok. I see how well that turned out long term 

OP, whatever you do, just make sure it's a balanced in take with lifestyle, exercise, rest and diet

Golly! 6kg of creatine is 3 orders of magnitude above recommendations - talk about shi*tting bricks!

Agree on the fly by night, this is why I always read the label and try to find something with 75% protein or more.

And then yes, if one could bottle up the effects of 30min of consistent training per day you would build a business worth trillions. But the hard yards is not sexy. A sweaty, well-built influencer holding a shaker with the new hot supp on instagram is sexy. And you can consume media while consuming the supp - it's the dream!

stress + REST = growth.
(training + recovery = gains)

Edited February 2 by JayLow
added the growth equation

[Dappere]

23 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

Switched to an all meat diet in Dec ( not the whole fad thing , rather to see what influence it has on my diabetes ) 

 

Been recommended to me by my doc for years but now fully into it. 

 

Tried 100% meat since 7 Dec but worked in about 50 grams of nuts everyday( since 19 dec ) cause I started feeling very flat. 

 

So its more lifestyle than training demand , train about 5 hours every week. ( wish it was more but life is pretty upside down now ) 

 

Sugar is much more consistent and lower ave , doing a wide panel at the end of feb to see what bigger effect it has had. 

I'm not particularly well-read on the all-meat diet, just familiar with the basics and its touted benefits. However, it clarified your amount of protein intake. I'd be very interested in hearing about your long-term results, especially regarding your diabetes management.

[BaGearA]

4 minutes ago, Dappere said:

I'm not particularly well-read on the all-meat diet, just familiar with the basics and its touted benefits. However, it clarified your amount of protein intake. I'd be very interested in hearing about your long-term results, especially regarding your diabetes management.

Purely sugar management has been great 

 

On less than quarter of the insulin I was in Oct and stats are slightly down and more consistent. 

 

Cholesterol , minerals and vitamins are what I'm most interested in. 

[Dappere]

24 minutes ago, JayLow said:

So true! Which is why you often find this kind of disclaimer on supps: "This unregistered medicine has not been evaluated for its quality, safety or intended use"

Absolutely, it harks back to my school days, when I was all about turning my endurance-athlete physique into something a bit more gun-laden to impress the ladies. Jack3D was my go-to, despite its ominous warning label. Young and clueless, right? Oh, the things we do for a bit of attention – you live, you laugh, and you learn! 🤣

[Jewbacca]

6 minutes ago, Dappere said:

Absolutely, it harks back to my school days, when I was all about turning my endurance-athlete physique into something a bit more gun-laden to impress the ladies. Jack3D was my go-to, despite its ominous warning label. Young and clueless, right? Oh, the things we do for a bit of attention – you live, you laugh, and you learn! 🤣

Wasn't there a massive hoo-ha around that when some dude died? I seem to vaguely recall it being dragged through the mud if not pulled off the market eventually.

 

[Dappere]

5 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Wasn't there a massive hoo-ha around that when some dude died? I seem to vaguely recall it being dragged through the mud if not pulled off the market eventually.

 

Just by looking at the packaging, you'd think it was a prop straight out of "Breaking Bad" 🤣. But jokes aside, you're spot on. There was indeed a tragic case where someone passed away from respiratory failure and cardiac arrest after using Jack3D.

I called it quits after finishing my second tub, as it started messing with my sleep and I began experiencing shortness of breath. 

[Bike Dewing]

1 hour ago, Dappere said:

Understood, but that assumes the OP has a clear target for their protein intake. Your question made me realise we're dishing out lots of good advice but missing a simple starter guide. Saying a product has 20g of protein per serving is all well and good, but it's a bit meaningless without the bigger picture.

At 67kg, you're on 2.3g of protein per kg of body weight, which is pretty steep. Curious to hear what your training schedule looks like to warrant that level of intake.

My wife’s best friend is a competitive body builder, and she always says rather over than under on protein intake.. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

so besides the fact that people are welcome to live their lives however they want and that might just work for him, that simply justifies that.. 😉🤙🏻

[dave303e]

My dietician has me at 2,1g of protein per kg per day based on my average training load, 5grams of carbs per kg per day. I have had really good results from a dietitian and honestly it is sustainable, I just dish appropriately and eat normal food. Then around racing and training I add what I need to add.

Directly after training it is an endurance recovery shake. Guide is 1,5gram carb per kg of body weight in the first 30mins after a training session with 20-30grams of protein. Works out perfectly at 1,5 scoops of USN pro Recover for me at 70kg. The real benefit of a recovery shake is the convenience, timing and bioavailability. You can very easily pre pack a shake and just add water if you are going to the gym or leave it in the car if you are driving to a ride. For me January had me on site at a client so there was a quick shower and in the car but I could hammer down the shake in the shower and have it pre loaded the night before. If you commute by bike you can leave it in your desk. It also is easy to digest and gives you a good start at hydrating post ride.

In the past I have dabbled in various supplements and here is my experience in those.

Creatine- is great for strength, power and just feeling like a beast. Once that initial loading stage is done you feel bulky. If you are looking to up your raw power and size it works well.(obviously with the training to match) You easily add muscle mass and carry a lot of fluid weight. You do need to drink more. For cycling it is maybe not the most useful thing all the time but for those blocks focused on speed and power it can be useful.

Pre Workouts- As above we all have fun when we are young. Great for 20min ftp tests, better for 5km timetrial runs or hammering out leg strength days. But use with caution. I no longer go anywhere near that now that I am 100% off caffeine. I do miss it for those days you want to give it all in a speedwork or interval session.

Bovine Colostrum- I dunno how this stuff is not banned, I am sure you will test positive for something on it as well. 100ml after training with my recovery shake.  Good luck stomaching it if you are a bit squeamish. I tried it for a month a few years ago, clocked a 10km pb in a month that I gained 5kg-yes I went bos training that month but I felt like I could give 100% every single day. It is a bit of a wild one but it gives results. Honestly I battle to stomach it on a daily basis and I am sure it is in some way illegal and I don't feel like being in the dopers suck thread.

To me the most sustainable and best results came from a dietician and having a routine/grid to work within. It is just easier and I eat normal food with the family, I just have the correct portions and the right timing of food with a basic protein shake post ride. I have been a full year on it and it doesn't take any effort really which is why it works. 

[dave303e]

12 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Wasn't there a massive hoo-ha around that when some dude died? I seem to vaguely recall it being dragged through the mud if not pulled off the market eventually.

 

Plenty cases of death from pre workout...

One at the London marathon a few years ago was jack3d, then there were a few others, basically heart attacks induced by stimulants. This is the reason we have a banned substance list and doping codes etc...

[BaGearA]

7 minutes ago, dave303e said:

 

Bovine Colostrum- I dunno how this stuff is not banned, I am sure you will test positive for something on it as well. 100ml after training with my recovery shake.  Good luck stomaching it if you are a bit squeamish. I tried it for a month a few years ago, clocked a 10km pb in a month that I gained 5kg-yes I went bos training that month but I felt like I could give 100% every single day. It is a bit of a wild one but it gives results. Honestly I battle to stomach it on a daily basis and I am sure it is in some way illegal and I don't feel like being in the dopers suck thread.

 

You sure that wasn't just cocaine with some pea protein mixed in ? 🤣

[Dappere]

5 minutes ago, Bichael Dewing said:

My wife’s best friend is a competitive body builder, and she always says rather over than under on protein intake.. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

so besides the fact that people are welcome to live their lives however they want and that might just work for him, that simply justifies that.. 😉🤙🏻

Certainly, comparing the protein needs of a competitive bodybuilder to those of a cyclist sheds light on how dietary requirements can differ dramatically based on the nature of the sport and the athlete's goals. A bodybuilder, as mentioned by your wife's best friend, typically leans towards higher protein intake to support muscle growth and repair. This approach makes sense given their objective to increase muscle mass and strength.

On the other hand, a cyclist's diet requires a more balanced approach, with a good mix of protein and carbohydrates, especially post-workout. While protein is crucial for repairing and rebuilding muscle tissue affected during long rides, carbohydrates are equally important for replenishing glycogen stores that have been depleted during endurance activities. This balance helps ensure optimal recovery and performance for cyclists, who rely heavily on sustained energy levels and muscle endurance.

This contrast highlights the importance of tailoring one's diet to their specific activity demands. Whereas bodybuilders may prioritize protein to bulk up, cyclists need to balance their intake to support both muscle recovery and energy needs, illustrating the varied nutritional strategies across different sports.