CSA Commissaire's competency for schools races

[JeffK]

Without going into too much detail about an incident that occured, I want to find out how CSA deems someone competent to work at school races? 

A short overview of what occured today. My 6 year old son crashed on the practice lap of a schools race today. Another kid crashed at the same exact spot 30 seconds after him. As a parent the first thought was that the time we put in the get him ready to race was not enough (about 2 hours a week for a sub nipper).

The part of the track in question is a double ramp with about a 2m section in between, with a small hump at either end. Most of the younger kids didn't have enough speed to clear it, but also didn't have the judgement to know that they will get airbourne carrying even low speed into the ramp. .

Upon arriving at the medic tent we had to wait in the queue because there were already a number of kids injured, likely from the same spot on the course. This was still during practice. 

After his cleanup I took my boy for a walk to find out if he is OK and still wanted to race later on. I briefly went back to see how a family member was diong in the nipper race that was the first race for the day. During this race about  1 in 4 of the kids either crashed or nearly lost contol at the exact same spot. Some lost control when their hands or feet slipped off after landing, and one boy went over his handlebars and landed face first.

Gathering courage to go to one of the CSA Commisairres to try and convince them that I know enough to know when something is a serious issue was quite difficult. I did it as they were lining up the nipper girls for the race. This exchange started off politely, but I soon realized that my concern will be ignored, and I was told to ask our team manager to warn the kids of this dangerous spot. My last words were that if someone gets seriously hurt in the next couple of minutes I did warn you. One thing I realized is that this person hasn't spent enough time observing small kids in a race environment to realize that if a number of them crash at the same spot then something needs to be done and all the so called track checks they did is useless! 

The medics also didn't raise alarm that there might be an issue because of a number of kids getting hurt (surely more than usual).

After telling my son we are going home before his race, he promised that he will go slow over this specific section of the track. I agreed and we took him to line up as the nipper girls got underway and sub nipper boys were being loaded into the pen. While standing with him at the pen, I looked to the specific part of the track hoping to see no injured kids to convince myself that him racing is OK. Unfortunately what I saw was exactly the opposite...

I approached the same person again and made him aware that what I warned him about just became a reality. This was hopefully when they realized there is an issue. After this another commissaire proceeded to warn the sub nippers to only do the jumps if they are comfortable! How on earth do they think that 6 and 7 year olds have that type judgment to know that when they go at the speed they feel comfortable with that they might or might not land a jump that they didn't expect. Fortunately the person I approached acted at that point and steps were taken to address the problem.

I hope that all the injuries heal up soon. I know we can't protect the kids from everything, but here we failed.

Edited May 25 by JeffK

[ChrisF]

5 hours ago, JeffK said:

Without going into too much detail about an incident that occured, I want to find out how CSA deems someone competent to work at school races? 

A short overview of what occured today. My 6 year old son crashed on the practice lap of a schools race today. Another kid crashed at the same exact spot 30 seconds after him. As a parent the first thought was that the time we put in the get him ready to race was not enough (about 2 hours a week for a sub nipper).

The part of the track in question is a double ramp with about a 2m section in between, with a small hump at either end. Most of the younger kids didn't have enough speed to clear it, but also didn't have the judgement to know that they will get airbourne carrying even low speed into the ramp. .

Upon arriving at the medic tent we had to wait in the queue because there were already a number of kids injured, likely from the same spot on the course. This was still during practice. 

After his cleanup I took my boy for a walk to find out if he is OK and still wanted to race later on. I briefly went back to see how a family member was diong in the nipper race that was the first race for the day. During this race about  1 in 4 of the kids either crashed or nearly lost contol at the exact same spot. Some lost control when their hands or feet slipped off after landing, and one boy went over his handlebars and landed face first.

Gathering courage to go to one of the CSA Commisairres to try and convince them that I know enough to know when something is a serious issue was quite difficult. I did it as they were lining up the nipper girls for the race. This exchange started off politely, but I soon realized that my concern will be ignored, and I was told to ask our team manager to warn the kids of this dangerous spot. My last words were that if someone gets seriously hurt in the next couple of minutes I did warn you. One thing I realized is that this person hasn't spent enough time observing small kids in a race environment to realize that if a number of them crash at the same spot then something needs to be done and all the so called track checks they did is useless! 

The medics also didn't raise alarm that there might be an issue because of a number of kids getting hurt (surely more than usual).

After telling my son we are going home before his race, he promised that he will go slow over this specific section of the track. I agreed and we took him to line up as the nipper girls got underway and sub nipper boys were being loaded into the pen. While standing with him at the pen, I looked to the specific part of the track hoping to see no injured kids to convince myself that him racing is OK. Unfortunately what I saw was exactly the opposite...

I approached the same person again and made him aware that what I warned him about just became a reality. This was hopefully when they realized there is an issue. After this another commissaire proceeded to warn the sub nippers to only do the jumps if they are comfortable! How on earth do they think that 6 and 7 year olds have that type judgment to know that when they go at the speed they feel comfortable with that they might or might not land a jump that they didn't expect. Fortunately the person I approached acted at that point and steps were taken to address the problem.

I hope that all the injuries heal up soon. I know we can't protect the kids from everything, but here we failed.

 

That sound very bad ...

 

Which province ?

 

Some provinces are fixated on the "lines of communication".  Only the team manager will be listened to ....

 

Next time get your team manager involved immediately

[MORNE]

My experience with CSA clowns at events is this: 

they pitch up, tell you not to use bad language and to wear your helmet when on your bike, or else….

Then you never see them again. Easy money from all us who are forced to pay their day license fees lol. Never mind people who actually pay for licences to race bicycles. 

Events with features like you mention should usually be clearly marked with A and B lines to mitigate these risks and allow people to ride within their abilities. Even DH races do this. This is done by the event organisers as far as i am aware and not CSA though?

I don't know the ins and outs. @DieselnDust could likely share more insights.

 

[Barry]

As a parent of a boy that went from nippers all the way to JNR world Champs I do see your side. I do however think that we are overprotective of our kids at that age and it is more about the adults than the kids having fun. With a little advice and race recon your boy was able to understand what needed to be done. He told you he would go slow and didn't want to go home. In the end he finished and probably had an awesome race. As for CSA and comms maybe @Zeffer uncle Charles can advise on procedures. 

[Jewbacca]

At 6 years old I was racing BMX. I fell off trying to clear doubles all the time. 

Is it 'dangerous' or is it a point of concern? If they aren't going fast enough to clear a tiny ramp, are they going fast enough to do much damage?

Post some pictures? And were there any injuries other than some grazes and ego? (Of the parents and the kids).

I see your concern and I understand your instinct to protect your young, but sometimes it's best to push them out of the nest to see if they fly. 

[JeffK]

3 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

That sound very bad ...

 

Which province ?

 

Some provinces are fixated on the "lines of communication".  Only the team manager will be listened to ....

 

Next time get your team manager involved immediately

You can probably find out by looking around, but don't want to name the event as there may be a family dealing with some significant consequences at the moment.

The lines of comminication makes sense, to deal with every complain from every person is impossible, hopefully this never happens again. Unfortunately this felt like a herd of sheep just walking off a cliff together.

[JeffK]

1 hour ago, Barry said:

As a parent of a boy that went from nippers all the way to JNR world Champs I do see your side. I do however think that we are overprotective of our kids at that age and it is more about the adults than the kids having fun. With a little advice and race recon your boy was able to understand what needed to be done. He told you he would go slow and didn't want to go home. In the end he finished and probably had an awesome race. As for CSA and comms maybe @Zeffer uncle Charles can advise on procedures. 

Hi Barry, thank for the response. My self-awareness is working overtime to not be one of those parents, so working on it still. I think most parents did better than me yesterday by not saying anything which I applaud, but also having raced for almost 30 years the crashes I had was my own fault and most of the time it was just me that crashed. Seeing a significant number of kids being caught out by the same feature of the track just didn't make sense.

[JeffK]

37 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

At 6 years old I was racing BMX. I fell off trying to clear doubles all the time. 

Is it 'dangerous' or is it a point of concern? If they aren't going fast enough to clear a tiny ramp, are they going fast enough to do much damage?

Post some pictures? And were there any injuries other than some grazes and ego? (Of the parents and the kids).

I see your concern and I understand your instinct to protect your young, but sometimes it's best to push them out of the nest to see if they fly. 

Hi Jawbecca, totally agree, this is how you learn the limits. In an ideal world it would be great if all the 6 years olds were able to clear the jump, but this was a feature where a significant number of kids did get caught out and unfortunately they carried enough speed that possibly caused significant injuries to one kid in particular. 

[Jewbacca]

Events at Spice Route Western Cape and Pretoria Boys yesterday, so judging by the fact that JeffK had a bike stolen in Cape Town, I'd assume Spice Route.

I'm also not trolling, but wanted to search to see if there were any reports of any injuries there as it is alluded to below;

32 minutes ago, JeffK said:

as there may be a family dealing with some significant consequences at the moment.

. 

I know a friend of mines kids raced there yesterday. I'll ask him what he thought about it.

Hope your son is ok. 

From experience, CSA err on the side of caution. I've done enough practice runs on XCO courses only to be told A lines have been closed due to 'safety concerns' with what I regard as pretty straight forward features. 

It would be very out of character for them to assume unnecessary risk

Edited May 26 by Jewbacca

[Barry]

All we can do is try prepare them on the day. 99% of the kids navigated without incident and those that didn't probably were not prepared. Your boy fell in warm-ups after that and a bit of guidance from you he was able to race, finish and have fun. If other's/coaches parents on the day had taken same steps then less would have fallen. Like you say most of your crashes in your day were your own fault. 

[DieselnDust]

I haven’t been to a XCO this year but in generaL the nippers and sprogs courses fall inline with UCI guidelines and these are strictly adhered too. 
I don’t have any knowledge of the features in question so can’t provide comments on the suitability. 
in terms of the schools XCO, the CSA technical delegation will sign off on the course design and safety in place. The event organiser will have to comply with any changes requested before sign off is given. The process is pretty robust and I doubt the schools courses will fall out of line with those in the provincial XCO series, more likely that they are slightly toned down. Jump heights, and distances between those are determined by the UCI  regulations. Some photos would help further commentary. But I’ve not seen anything concerning in the WP XCO series. 
also in terms of expectations, a nippers and sprogs XCO is not a junior Argust. The assumption is that participants can handle their bike. I often stop by the Bike Park Uitsig with my daughter and I watch the 4-7 year olds sendin it. They wait till their parents aren’t watching before trying something bigger . Sometimes they crash and there’s a tjank fest for all of 10sec. If mommy doesn’t come running the tjank stops , bike is picked up and off they go to try again 😂

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I haven’t been to a XCO this year but in generaL the nippers and sprogs courses fall inline with UCI guidelines and these are strictly adhered too. 
I don’t have any knowledge of the features in question so can’t provide comments on the suitability. 
in terms of the schools XCO, the CSA technical delegation will sign off on the course design and safety in place. The event organiser will have to comply with any changes requested before sign off is given. The process is pretty robust and I doubt the schools courses will fall out of line with those in the provincial XCO series, more likely that they are slightly toned down. Jump heights, and distances between those are determined by the UCI  regulations. Some photos would help further commentary. But I’ve not seen anything concerning in the WP XCO series. 
also in terms of expectations, a nippers and sprogs XCO is not a junior Argust. The assumption is that participants can handle their bike. I often stop by the Bike Park Uitsig with my daughter and I watch the 4-7 year olds sendin it. They wait till their parents aren’t watching before trying something bigger . Sometimes they crash and there’s a tjank fest for all of 10sec. If mommy doesn’t come running the tjank stops , bike is picked up and off they go to try again 😂

hahahaha this last bit is my little snapper. 

He loves to hit the bigger stuff when I'm not looking and often see him picking his bike up, brushing the gravel and checking for blood/clothing damage... It's hilarious