Time Trial Stats

[Turk182]

Another thing that you have to remember, is that the body has different energy systems, which are utilised differently depending on the power being produced.

 

As a result, I could have the same power at functional threshold but better power at VO2Max i.e. my power profile would be different to another rider's.  These energy systems need to be specifically targeted in order to get the required training adaption and improvements.

 

Then there are the longer running processes.  The neural adaptions, increased capillirisation etc.  All of which improve the efficiency of the muscles and/or the capacity of the muscles.  So the muscles are either able to use less energy to produce the same power (hence allowing gluycogen stores to last longer) or they are capable of storing more glycogen, or they are better at utilising fat as an energy source.

 

All of these training adaptions etc mean that each athlete is somewhat unique and has different strengths and weaknesses.  Training with a power meter enables you to identify those weaknesses and hence change your training program to address them better.

 

Bikemax will tell you, he has two athletes (myself and someone else) who have very similar power to weight at ftp - yet I have been able to make the breaks and the other hasn't - looking at the power data it is possible to identify the shortcomings and target those areas that need more work.

Bruce i have a PT but the software i'm using does not break down the info into say power to weight and nice things like that, any ideas?

[bruce]

 

Bruce i have a PT but the software i'm using does not break down the info into say power to weight and nice things like that' date=' any ideas?[/quote']

 

Cyclingpeaks!!  Only software worth it's salt.

 

[Chunky]

Chunky' date=' or anyone else for that matter...

How many days p/month or p/week would you dedicate to big-blade-11 riding...? [/quote']

 

At least twice, preferably 3 times

[TNT1]

 

Bikemax will tell you' date=' he has two athletes (myself and someone else) who have very similar power to weight at ftp - yet I have been able to make the breaks and the other hasn't - looking at the power data it is possible to identify the shortcomings and target those areas that need more work.

 

[/quote']

 

I know this is a thread for the power training junkies, but in the example you mention above, surely other factors in cycling can influence this? I mean I have often raced succesfully against riders who are stronger and have more power. Cycling isn't just about the numbers on your power meter, but also about how and when you use the power you have? We have all been in races and seen races where the most powerfull or strongest rider didn't win, but rather the one with the best tactics?

 

[bruce]

 

Bikemax will tell you' date=' he has two athletes (myself and someone else) who have very similar power to weight at ftp - yet I have been able to make the breaks and the other hasn't - looking at the power data it is possible to identify the shortcomings and target those areas that need more work.

 

[/quote']

 

I know this is a thread for the power training junkies, but in the example you mention above, surely other factors in cycling can influence this? I mean I have often raced succesfully against riders who are stronger and have more power. Cycling isn't just about the numbers on your power meter, but also about how and when you use the power you have? We have all been in races and seen races where the most powerfull or strongest rider didn't win, but rather the one with the best tactics?

 

Absolutely, but if you cannot produce the necessary power for the required duration you are gone.  An example, I know I need to be able to do around 420 watts for six minutes to stay with Marco vb, OB, 101% etc over Suikerbosrand - because that is what happened in the race.  Now, if you can't do that, no amount of tactics is going to help, because the race selection has been made and the break has gone.

 

You are 100% right, cycling is not just about numbers, but the numbers are able to give you a lot of insight, and help you improve your tactics.

 

[Marco]

And to think..........we took it easy up suikerbosrand that day!!

(team orders where to take it easy so more people can go with)

 

At this stage I agree, training with watts has advantages, but up to now I have never trained with it, although I did have a powertap but sold it cause I never used it. bought an ergomo cause it looks nice and brings out the color of my eyes!!

 

 

 

[BikeMax]

 

The difference is that because of McEwens Fast twitch fibers he can put out a lot of power for a very short period of time. (maybe 5 seconds)

Boonen can sustain the power output for a longer time. (5 minutes)

 

That is why Robbie is always completely hidden in a sprint until the very last minute when he bursts out to win.

 

Another example: If the two were runners Robbie would probably out sprint Boonen over 60m' date=' It would be close over 100m, Boonen would win 200 or 400m.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Sorry guys - this thread got busy while I was out

 

Gumpole - this is right, Boonen has a better p/w at slightly longer durations and also has a far higher absolute power than Robbie. What this means is that in a race that suits him (flat or rolling but with a few selective short or hard climbs or crosswinds) then he can take advantage of the high absolute power without being hindered too much by long climbs. This sees all the smaller riders in trouble and only bigger guys in general able to be in the running (Voigt, cancellara etc) - by the time the end comes he has simply ridden them into the ground.

 

In a flatter stage or a race with no real selection then all the less powerful but fast sprinters can hang in - Zabel, Mcewen etc and they have sat in all day and so have a bit left to unleash their fast sprint - as you say, they can accelerate faster and over a very short period of time.

 

[BikeMax]

 

I agree with you BikeMax about your statments about Boonen.

 

I'll always try get rid of a good sprinter before we get to the line .

If in a break ' date=' one can start picking up about 20km's to go who in the break is starting to suffer. If a fast sprinter starts taking strain then you try lift the tempo to a uncomfortable pace for him, hopefully he gets droped.

Or if all else fails jump him as much as possible , if  like me one cant sprint then I would rather loose the race trying to get rid of a good sprinter than let him beat me on the line without trying to do anything about it!

 

 

[/quote'] Yeah Boonen needs a lead out otherwise he faids, Robbie on the other hand beats him when there is no lead out due to the fact that he has a better kick, more power i would say....

 

No - less power, but faster acceleration (lower weight, better fast twitch recruitment) but in anything but a pancake flat race (like a tour sprinters stage) Boonen will be there at the end but Robbie won't even be in sight.

 

Look at the spring classics like Flanders - you have to be able to climb and sprint to win those (Boonen can, Robbie can't)

But if has a lower weight and faster twitch muscles surely his power to weight is better and he should climb better?, then what makes a good climber?

 

What makes a good climber is a good p/w ratio over the longer durations - Robbie does not have this. Generally a good climber will have more slow twitch muscle fibre and weigh less and will be a poor sprinter.

 

[BikeMax]

 

 

The difference is that because of McEwens Fast twitch fibers he can put out a lot of power for a very short period of time. (maybe 5 seconds)

Boonen can sustain the power output for a longer time. (5 minutes)

 

That is why Robbie is always completely hidden in a sprint until the very last minute when he bursts out to win.

 

Another example: If the two were runners Robbie would probably out sprint Boonen over 60m' date=' It would be close over 100m, Boonen would win 200 or 400m.

 

 

[/quote'] Ok, that makes sense, so boonen would then be able to out climb a pure climber on shorter hills but dumped on longer ones, so could boonen develop into a better climber or does his genetic makeup limit him? Lance isn't the smallest guy 178cm at 71kg and he climbs like the hills are flats....maybe we should just leave it at "you either have it or you don't"

 

You are correct here - Boonen is a "good" climber over short durations but would lose 30 mins on Alpe D'Huez due to it's steep gradient and its 30-40 min time frame. He is always going to be limited by his weight - the steeper the climb the more he is at a disadvantage. LA may have been a moderate 70kg but his p/w was approaching 7w/kg for 30mins + due to his superior aerobic capacity.

 

To say you either have it or you don't is a bit black and white - we can all improve our weak areas and become better all round cyclist, but we are all limited to a dgree by our build and genetic make up.

 

[bruce]

 

And to think..........we took it easy up suikerbosrand that day!!

(team orders where to take it easy so more people can go with)

 

At this stage I agree' date=' training with watts has advantages, but up to now I have never trained with it, although I did have a powertap but sold it cause I never used it. bought an ergomo cause it looks nice and brings out the color of my eyes!!

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Thanks mate, now I really feel better

 

[Turk182]

And to think..........we took it easy up suikerbosrand that day!!

(team orders where to take it easy so more people can go with)

 

At this stage I agree' date=' training with watts has advantages, but up to now I have never trained with it, although I did have a powertap but sold it cause I never used it. bought an ergomo cause it looks nice and brings out the color of my eyes!!

 

 

 

[/quote']

Thanks mate, now I really feel better

sh..1t 420 for 6 min that's got to hurt, might as well pack it i then..

[BikeMax]

 

And to think..........we took it easy up suikerbosrand that day!!

(team orders where to take it easy so more people can go with)

 

At this stage I agree' date=' training with watts has advantages, but up to now I have never trained with it, although I did have a powertap but sold it cause I never used it. bought an ergomo cause it looks nice and brings out the color of my eyes!!

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Thanks mate, now I really feel better

sh..1t 420 for 6 min that's got to hurt, might as well pack it i then..

 

Turk - you got to start looking on the bright side

 

[Turk182]

And to think..........we took it easy up suikerbosrand that day!!

(team orders where to take it easy so more people can go with)

 

At this stage I agree' date=' training with watts has advantages, but up to now I have never trained with it, although I did have a powertap but sold it cause I never used it. bought an ergomo cause it looks nice and brings out the color of my eyes!!

 

 

 

[/quote']

Thanks mate, now I really feel better

sh..1t 420 for 6 min that's got to hurt, might as well pack it i then..

Turk - you got to start looking on the bright side

Bikemax i'm trying but all this strength just hurts....No seriously just need to get myself back into shape and i'm sure i could push close to those figures and the other percentage i'll get from drafting, don't youi save 30% sitting on someones wheel? So i actually just need around 294w to stay with them as long as i'm glued to their wheels....

[BikeMax]

 

And to think..........we took it easy up suikerbosrand that day!!

(team orders where to take it easy so more people can go with)

 

At this stage I agree' date=' training with watts has advantages, but up to now I have never trained with it, although I did have a powertap but sold it cause I never used it. bought an ergomo cause it looks nice and brings out the color of my eyes!!

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Thanks mate, now I really feel better

sh..1t 420 for 6 min that's got to hurt, might as well pack it i then..

 

Turk - you got to start looking on the bright side

Bikemax i'm trying but all this strength just hurts....No seriously just need to get myself back into shape and i'm sure i could push close to those figures and the other percentage i'll get from drafting, don't youi save 30% sitting on someones wheel? So i actually just need around 294w to stay with them as long as i'm glued to their wheels....

 

Thats more like the Turk we all know and love

 

[Gumpole]

wish drafting helped going slowly up hills, then you would be in there with a chance!

[Turk182]

wish drafting helped going slowly up hills' date=' then you would be in there with a chance![/quote'] i think drafting does help a little on the uphills if there is a major head wind which we get often...