Time Trial Stats

[Marco]

you guys are all full of bs - i've been taking it very easy this december! not likely that I'll have good stats. anyway, i bought the ergomo cause it looks nice on the bike, and so that I can give my bike to 101% after he breaks his generating to much power in the next tour. the whole team is riding for him this year as he is flying!!!

[Turk182]

Hi Bikemax, my last session i did a 20km tt at 303w, and i weigh 71kg, is this good or just average? i still get blown away on the climbs....

[Pantani]

 

 

ok' date='   thanks for the tip

 

- time to dust off the fly-fishing rods & start spending my saturdays & sundays on the vaal or in dullstroom again!  (excellent - i can even start consuming vast quantities of draught again - really do miss ice cold stella from the tap!)

 

[/quote']

 

I'm getting my fabled 3 prong attack ready for the Vets this year. 2 off the front and one out the back!

 

[BikeMax]

 

Hi Bikemax' date=' my last session i did a 20km tt at 303w, and i weigh 71kg, is this good or just average? i still get blown away on the climbs....

[/quote']

 

Well it's not bad at all - I would guess at an FTP of around 285-290 so 4.1w/kg - same as me. What bunch are you riding with ?

 

SV - you should be able to hang in there but not front bunch.

 

[Gumpole]

Bikemax/ Bruce: Isn't total power a lot more important (in SA) than P/W??

I would guess that somebody like Rujano or Simoni has better power/weight ratio (ie better climber) than voigt, cancellera or boonen... by far.

But for total power the latter 3 are a lot better (obviously)

 

So who would win any of the races in SA, Boonen, Cancellera or Voigt!

[Velouria]

 

Well it's not bad at all - I would guess at an FTP of around 285-290 so 4.1w/kg - same as me. What bunch are you riding with ?

 

SV - you should be able to hang in there but not front bunch.

 

Damn!!!

 

[BikeMax]

 

 

Bikemax/ Bruce: Isn't total power a lot more important (in SA) than P/W??

I would guess that somebody like Rujano or Simoni has better power/weight ratio (ie better climber) than voigt' date=' cancellera or boonen... by far.

But for total power the latter 3 are a lot better (obviously)

 

So who would win any of the races in SA, Boonen, Cancellera or Voigt!

[/quote']

 

Good point - I'd say it's a balance here in SA.

 

As long as you have a decent p/w ratio and can make it over the climbs without losing too much time, then the all rounders will win in SA. As an example, take David George - as a pure climber, he was unable to win Argus due to the fact that he could not put enough time into the all rounders over the shortish climbs and they always got back to him.

 

Boonen would win in SA - he can climb and sprint (Voight and Cancellara would have to drop him on a climb and ride away - tough ask looking at how he climbed in the Spring classics last year)

 

[Gumpole]

Yep, Boonen is a bad example - I didn't want to bring sprinting into it.

 

But i think the whole P/W ratio thing is completely overrated.

 

If I can manage 225w and I weigh 45kg I will be a 'euro pro' 5w/kg   and an excellent rider up 10% mountains

BUT I will never win a race in SA EVER, not even the sub vets, or the Vets, and probably not even the A or B bunch, where i will get dropped on the flats when the pace heats up and be just too weak to do anything about it.

[BikeMax]

 

Yep' date=' Boonen is a bad example - I didn't want to bring sprinting into it.

 

But i think the whole P/W ratio thing is completely overrated.

 

If I can manage 225w and I weigh 45kg I will be a 'euro pro' 5w/kg   and an excellent rider up 10% mountains

BUT I will never win a race in SA EVER, not even the sub vets, or the Vets, and probably not even the A or B bunch, where i will get dropped on the flats when the pace heats up and be just too weak to do anything about it.

[/quote']

 

Not quite as simple as that - in a bunch there are not many riders with anywhere near 5w/kg that will be dropped on the flat. On the other hand, if you do not have the p/w to make it over the climbs (however short) with the stronger riders, then your race is over anyway.

 

Generally speaking, in all but pancake flat races there is a minimum price of entry in terms of p/w that all the riders hoping to be competitive need to have - the flatter the ride the lower this might be due to the effect of drafting - but without it you will be dropped or be so close to the limit that when there is a surge, you are history.

 

Look at most of the riders that win in SA- all of them are relatively light and have a good p/w - even the sprinters have a good p/w or they would not be there at the end.

 

The riders you are talking about are few and far between - pure climbers at ~50-55kgs are not going to win on rolling terrain but they might still hang in until the final selection is made - certainly they are more likely to survive than a bigger rider who ddoes not have the requisite p/w

 

There are plenty of big strong riders in SA - not many of them win races though...

 

All said and done - p/w still is the "main" determinant of performance in races.

 

[bruce]

I think things are a bit different in the Vet's categories than in the Elite/Pros.  In vet's racing, you need to have good functional threshold power and power at VO2Max (5 minute).  The reason for this is that 90% of the races are decided by a break of 4 - 8 riders.  Usually this break happens on a climb and we only have short climbs.  So, you need to be able to make the split, and then you need to be able to stay in the break.  The problem in vet's racing is that there are so few strong teams.  Once the split happens, the riders in the split are generally strong enough to ride away from the bunch, because each of the strong teams will be represented in the split and the bunch is not strong enough to pull it back.

 

In elites there are more strong teams, although not that many either.  This means that collectively the bunch is stronger and a rider with a lower absolute power is able to use this to his advantage.

 

[bruce]

 

you guys are all full of bs - i've been taking it very easy this december! not likely that I'll have good stats. anyway' date=' i bought the ergomo cause it looks nice on the bike, and so that I can give my bike to 101% after he breaks his generating to much power in the next tour. the whole team is riding for him this year as he is flying!!![/quote']

 

I know which team I'm glad I'm on!!

 

[Chunky]

Bikemax, I know how to analize power data for the track, but using an SRM on the road is greek to me.

 

Can you tell me if that calculation of power / body weight ratio is maintained even if you weigh over say 100 kg's. I can remember going to Eastern Transvaal and riding up one of those passes. I had recorded an interval up one of the climbs. I can recall that it took me around 25 min to climb, and my average power was about 500 watts, but my weight was also around 118 kg. I managed that but it was like torture, and I probably took a good 5 - 8 minutes longer than the guys I was with.

 

I was wondering if the ratio is a bit optomistic at that weight. I know that when I used to do max efforts at the track, I could get around 2200 watts but could only maintain that for a few sec. When I used to do 30 sec efforts just before CG, I used to max at 2200 watts, but was below 300 watts by the time I got to 20 sec.

 

 

[BikeMax]

 

Bikemax' date=' I know how to analize power data for the track, but using an SRM on the road is greek to me.

 

Can you tell me if that calculation of power / body weight ratio is maintained even if you weigh over say 100 kg's. I can remember going to Eastern Transvaal and riding up one of those passes. I had recorded an interval up one of the climbs. I can recall that it took me around 25 min to climb, and my average power was about 500 watts, but my weight was also around 118 kg. I managed that but it was like torture, and I probably took a good 5 - 8 minutes longer than the guys I was with.

 

I was wondering if the ratio is a bit optomistic at that weight. I know that when I used to do max efforts at the track, I could get around 2200 watts but could only maintain that for a few sec. When I used to do 30 sec efforts just before CG, I used to max at 2200 watts, but was below 300 watts by the time I got to 20 sec.

 

 

[/quote']

 

In theory the ratio is good through the weight range - the climb you mention saw you at 4.23w/kg for 25 mins - this is about right given the information you have provided - the better climbers that you may have been with would have been nearer 5w/kg for this duration - hence the 5-8 mins advantage.

 

On the track your figures look about right - world class track sprinters are putting out ~24w/kg for 5 secs - for 118kg that would be at 2832w

 

[Jean-Jay]

 

Hi Bikemax' date=' my last session i did a 20km tt at 303w, and i weigh 71kg, is this good or just average? i still get blown away on the climbs....

[/quote']

 

Well it's not bad at all - I would guess at an FTP of around 285-290 so 4.1w/kg - same as me. What bunch are you riding with ?

 

SV - you should be able to hang in there but not front bunch.

 

Dam!!!! Thats excellent Power to Weight Ratio's - both of you!

I am aiming for that figure. I presently sit at 3.49watts/kg.

 

I wonder how long it will take me to get to 4w/kg. I hope to get there by March - is this too ambitous

 

 

[Jean-Jay]

I think i can handle like 10 minutes at 300 watts when i use to do  my steps at bikemax. So would this be an indication of my climbing power over a climb of similar duration. That would put me at 3.9watts/kg.

 

Is that right?

 

[bruce]

 

Bikemax' date=' I know how to analize power data for the track, but using an SRM on the road is greek to me.

 

Can you tell me if that calculation of power / body weight ratio is maintained even if you weigh over say 100 kg's. I can remember going to Eastern Transvaal and riding up one of those passes. I had recorded an interval up one of the climbs. I can recall that it took me around 25 min to climb, and my average power was about 500 watts, but my weight was also around 118 kg. I managed that but it was like torture, and I probably took a good 5 - 8 minutes longer than the guys I was with.

 

I was wondering if the ratio is a bit optomistic at that weight. I know that when I used to do max efforts at the track, I could get around 2200 watts but could only maintain that for a few sec. When I used to do 30 sec efforts just before CG, I used to max at 2200 watts, but was below 300 watts by the time I got to 20 sec.

 

 

[/quote']

 

In theory the ratio is good through the weight range - the climb you mention saw you at 4.23w/kg for 25 mins - this is about right given the information you have provided - the better climbers that you may have been with would have been nearer 5w/kg for this duration - hence the 5-8 mins advantage.

 

On the track your figures look about right - world class track sprinters are putting out ~24w/kg for 5 secs - for 118kg that would be at 2832w

 

More than just in theory I would say.  Climbing is THE most deterministic situation for power calculations in cycling.  Gravity is well defined and does not vary, but things like drag coefficient (CDa) etc are very difficult to calculate accurately and have to be approximated.  This is why the iBike will have it's most accurate results in climbing.

 

So yes, a relatively skinny guy like me would be able to get away from you Chunks, on a climb.  But I reckon you gonna catch me pretty quick on a flat if you are pushing 500watts average!!