Why you are not welcome in the cradle

[Pietman]

Correct me if I'm wrong' date=' but isn't that dotted yellow line the cycling lane?

I want to be honest here for a second, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it, but if I had to deal with sh!t like this in my neighbourhood every weekend, I would want to buy a cattle-prod as well. Roadies are always crying about having rights on the road and all that, but at the end of the day you need to earn respect. From these pictures these guys are comparable to the average taxi.

I hate to say it, but if there was a petition going around to ban cycling on the Cradle route, I would sign it.


[/quote']

Same here, I'd sign it too. If we ride like this here in Upington  that's fine, because you get about 10 vehicles on a 4 hour ride, and you can see the vehicles from at least 500m's away. But there it is not the case. You dipsh!ts you are going to get yourself killed, if you don't die, you will cause someone to get angry about cyclists in general and someone innocent wil pay for your di!ckheadedness.

Oh and the guy urinating by the side of the road, can we get his address? I want to go take a cr@p on his drive way tomorrow morning.

[Zidane]

Just further evidence that no-one in this country has respect for the law...

Agree with the rest of the rant' date=' but just a note worth mentioning is that it is against the law to ride in the yellow line, and it is within the law for cyclists to cycle two abreast (although motor vehicles are required to change lanes to overtake), and within the law to cycle anywhere in the left lane.? I'm not saying it would be wise, just that it would be lawful.[/quote']

 

I dont know what law you know, but that is not?SA law. I downloaded the law awile ago and i can gaurentee you the law says you have to ride single file. It also says if there is a cycle lane you are not allowed to ride in the road. Google it.

Hi CR I've used this road for about 5 years it only got this bad when it got tarred, so now I just ride off-road elsewhere. I agree with almost all your points, just remember if you follow SA law, it's also illegal to drive while filming.

[Slowbee]

and the last few points highlight everything that is the true problem.

everybody pointing out to everybody else that they are also breaking the law. No the line is dotted, but actually solid, and the law says this and that. Some of these posts read like our governemt that says they are allowed to spend 1.2mil per car.

 

Just accept some responsibility for your own actions and stop using other people's actions & attitudes to justify your own.

 

And for crying in a dam bucket, apply some common sense and decency to your fellow humam beings.

Slowbee2009-11-07 13:16:04

[Scooterza]

I reckon the comment to have some kind of ID number or something carries merit.  Sadly until you start nailing idiots who behave as if they personally own the road, you will get this kind of thing.  I would be happy to wear a number because when I see a car I move WAY over (if I am not already way over) and get out the way.  As someone said this is a respect issue - let's all respect one another. 

 

I 100% sympathise with CR - even though it is very busy right now, there are plenty cyclists in this area all year round.  If I had to deal with this  kind of thing every weekend, I would get the total zig myself.  And this results in escalating aggression on the side of motorists.    Not good for anyone!

 

[chucky]

So now you know the problums that Andrew myself and Ian are trying to sort out.

I believe every group has to self police themselves and have a dedicated marshall or lead rider that will tell his mates to behave themselves,it is impossible to control all the cyclists all the time,you are all responsible adults and behace assordingly

[Lotus]

Another day, a different Cradle crowd?

 

I was out there this morning from 07h00 until 10h00. Everybody friendly, keeping out of motorists way and riding two abreast properly to the side. A couple of motorists were holding behind cyclists at one point where it was a bit tight, then going by with a wave.

 

Why was yesterday so different?

 

 

 

[Mavric Man]

Firstly, CR has to pick the weekend before the 94.7 to spy on us, secondly I am not appologising for any cyclist behavior. As a motorist if you come across a slow truck in the middle of the road do you start a campain to remove trucks, no you are patient and go around the truck. Why is it any different for cyclist. We are either allowed to ride on the roads or not and I dont care what transpires from this vendetta I will continue to cycle in this area and its about time motorist show some respect for cyclist who have as much right to be on our roads than anyone else. To the gentleman in the undercover van with a CA number plate, take up a hobby and get a life.

[Guest Agteros]

 

Firstly' date=' CR has to pick the weekend before the 94.7 to spy on us, secondly I am not appologising for any cyclist behavior. As a motorist if you come across a slow truck in the middle of the road do you start a campain to remove trucks, no you are patient and go around the truck. Why is it any different for cyclist. We are either allowed to ride on the roads or not and I dont care what transpires from this vendetta I will continue to cycle in this area and its about time motorist show some respect for cyclist who have as much right to be on our roads than anyone else. To the gentleman in the undercover van with a CA number plate, take up a hobby and get a life.

[/quote']

 

MM, the slow truck is there by right. Frustratingly slow, but legally occupying the lane.

The issue here is the cyclists transgressing the law by riding next to each other, and not keeping left.The time of the year / cycling calendar is immaterial in the eyes of the law.

 

Cycling routes are like financial investments. The moment the crowds appear, it is time to take your money and move on to another area (cycling AND investments!)

 

 

[Woody]

@MM, you were obviously in one of the photo's as can be seen from your attitude, and I am wiling to bet you belong to the lab!!!

 

 

 

Respect everyone and everyone will respect you. Respect is not:

 

 

 

1.The Club you belong too.

 

2.The amount of money have have spent on your bike.

 

3.The cycling license you have (more than likely you ride in VA or VB).

 

4. Your attitude sucks

[Mavric Man]

Agteros - I understand what you say, but I maintain a bit of patience and understanding will go along way from all parties concerned. And yes obviously the guys that pee on the road and ride in the middle of it are plain stupid and I cant relate to those people...its funny that Ive never heard of complaints from any of the residents from the many areas I ride through in Jozi and still maintain this is a small minority who simply have it in for cyclist, but that's my opinion.

[Mavric Man]

Woody, nope not in any of the pics, but CR did take pics of us on the route but we were two abreast and thise pics were obviously not posted! Yes belong to the Lab but not licensed (u obviously anti Lab but thats fine). I respect everyone and expect the same back and just fed up with this issue... Mavric Man2009-11-08 04:32:25

[bruce]

@MM' date=' you were obviously in one of the photo's as can be seen from your attitude, and I am wiling to bet you belong to the lab!!!

Respect everyone and everyone will respect you. Respect is not:

1.The Club you belong too.
2.The amount of money have have spent on your bike.
3.The cycling license you have (more than likely you ride in VA or VB).
4. Your attitude sucks[/quote']

ROTFLMAO - this little serman on respect is an epic fail on so many fronts it's scary! bruce2009-11-08 04:43:01

[Skye]

 

 

@MM' date=' you were obviously in one of the photo's as can be seen from your attitude, and I am wiling to bet you belong to the lab!!!

 

 

 

Respect everyone and everyone will respect you. Respect is not:

 

 

 

1.The Club you belong too.

 

2.The amount of money have have spent on your bike.

 

3.The cycling license you have (more than likely you ride in VA or VB).

 

4. Your attitude sucks[/quote']

 

 

If I may ask, what's your gripes with

1. the Lab?

2. VA & VB groups?

3. How much money one spends on his/her bike?

 

Does the above issues affect you personally or your cycling in anyway? Other than being jealous of what ever it may be the above should not affect you or your cycling at all

 

Skye2009-11-08 04:54:45

[dirtrider]

[linnega]

 

Just further evidence that no-one in this country has respect for the law...

Agree with the rest of the rant' date=' but just a note worth mentioning is that it is against the law to ride in the yellow line, and it is within the law for cyclists to cycle two abreast (although motor vehicles are required to change lanes to overtake), and within the law to cycle anywhere in the left lane.  I'm not saying it would be wise, just that it would be lawful.

[/quote']

I dont know what law you know, but that is not SA law. I downloaded the law awile ago and i can gaurentee you the law says you have to ride single file. It also says if there is a cycle lane you are not allowed to ride in the road. Google it.

I would suggest you not be facetious, particularly when you are in the wrong.  The law is pretty simple - a bike, as long as it has a driver/rider, is a vehicle by definition as it is "propelled primarily on wheels".  S296 of the Road Regs requires vehicles to keep in the left half of the road and "not encroach on the half of the roadway to his or her right...".  A number of other sections provide for how to overtake, always putting the onus on the passing car to ensure it is safe and prudent, and to move to the right half of the road to perform this maneuvre (with a few caveats about multi-lane roads and "undertaking" that aren't relevant).  The basic rule is "shall pass to the right thereof at a safe distance and shall

not again drive on the left side of the roadway until safely clear of the vehicle so

passed".  There is no further mention of where a bike is required to ride (other than the left half), although S298A prohibits the driving of a vehicle (including a pedal cycle) on the shoulder with an allowance, not a requirement, to move over to allow passing.  S311 provides specifically for bicycles, including the much mentioned (and, in your case and others, misread) subsection (2) which requires cyclist to ride single file except when passing another cyclist.  Effectively this gives license to ride two abreast as there is no distinction between passing and riding alongside.

 

I didn't plan to get involved in your little territorial war, but I would suggest that at least 90% of the reaction you get from cyclists is that you seem to believe that your anger is righteous.  Perhaps showing a little respect to the cyclists may engender a little respect in return.  Most of the photos show nothing illegal, except in cases where the cyclists are more than 2 abreast.  Even in these cases, the photo's you took show a solid white line, so passing is illegal there anyway.  Cyclists have legal right to use the road, they have the historical right (given that bicycles and roads for them preceded the invention of motorised transport) and obviously the moral right in a world searching for greener methods of transport.

 

Perhaps, but probably not, this article will help you get over yourself:

http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/Bicyclesarelegaltraffictoo.aspx

 

Finally, you did mention a bicycle lane - I don't see any in the pics.  I never brought that into my initial point as I referred directly to "riding within the yellow line".  There did used to be reference to cycle lanes in one of the guideline docs from the department of Transport a few years ago, but I don't recall it making legislation.  In the UK bicycle lanes are compulsory in terms of their code of conduct, but recent case law has seen that section being removed from the highway code.  The primary reason is that a cyclist should have a choice to ride wherever on the road he feels safest.

 

That all said, I have no interest in how this issue is resolved, but am concerned that motorists still believe that they have a right to be indignant because their (often illegal) driving behaviour has been slowed for a few seconds, and that cyclists seem to have the ridiculous notion that somehow behaviour of cyclists has any impact on the general perception motorists have of their "absolute" right to the road.

 

[Cradleresident]

Just further evidence that no-one in this country has respect for the law...

Agree with the rest of the rant' date=' but just a note worth mentioning is that it is against the law to ride in the yellow line, and it is within the law for cyclists to cycle two abreast (although motor vehicles are required to change lanes to overtake), and within the law to cycle anywhere in the left lane.  I'm not saying it would be wise, just that it would be lawful.
[/quote']

I dont know what law you know, but that is not SA law. I downloaded the law awile ago and i can gaurentee you the law says you have to ride single file. It also says if there is a cycle lane you are not allowed to ride in the road. Google it.

I would suggest you not be facetious, particularly when you are in the wrong.  The law is pretty simple - a bike, as long as it has a driver/rider, is a vehicle by definition as it is "propelled primarily on wheels".  S296 of the Road Regs requires vehicles to keep in the left half of the road and "not encroach on the half of the roadway to his or her right...".  A number of other sections provide for how to overtake, always putting the onus on the passing car to ensure it is safe and prudent, and to move to the right half of the road to perform this maneuvre (with a few caveats about multi-lane roads and "undertaking" that aren't relevant).  The basic rule is "shall pass to the right thereof at a safe distance and shall not again drive on the left side of the roadway until safely clear of the vehicle so passed".  There is no further mention of where a bike is required to ride (other than the left half), although S298A prohibits the driving of a vehicle (including a pedal cycle) on the shoulder with an allowance, not a requirement, to move over to allow passing.  S311 provides specifically for bicycles, including the much mentioned (and, in your case and others, misread) subsection (2) which requires cyclist to ride single file except when passing another cyclist.  Effectively this gives license to ride two abreast as there is no distinction between passing and riding alongside.

I didn't plan to get involved in your little territorial war, but I would suggest that at least 90% of the reaction you get from cyclists is that you seem to believe that your anger is righteous.  Perhaps showing a little respect to the cyclists may engender a little respect in return.  Most of the photos show nothing illegal, except in cases where the cyclists are more than 2 abreast.  Even in these cases, the photo's you took show a solid white line, so passing is illegal there anyway.  Cyclists have legal right to use the road, they have the historical right (given that bicycles and roads for them preceded the invention of motorised transport) and obviously the moral right in a world searching for greener methods of transport.

Perhaps, but probably not, this article will help you get over yourself:
http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/Bicyclesarelegaltraffictoo.aspx

Finally, you did mention a bicycle lane - I don't see any in the pics.  I never brought that into my initial point as I referred directly to "riding within the yellow line".  There did used to be reference to cycle lanes in one of the guideline docs from the department of Transport a few years ago, but I don't recall it making legislation.  In the UK bicycle lanes are compulsory in terms of their code of conduct, but recent case law has seen that section being removed from the highway code.  The primary reason is that a cyclist should have a choice to ride wherever on the road he feels safest.

That all said, I have no interest in how this issue is resolved, but am concerned that motorists still believe that they have a right to be indignant because their (often illegal) driving behaviour has been slowed for a few seconds, and that cyclists seem to have the ridiculous notion that somehow behaviour of cyclists has any impact on the general perception motorists have of their "absolute" right to the road.

 

 

http://www.transport.gov.za/library/legislation/road%20traffic%20act.txt

 

The Road Traffic Act 29 of 1989, Section 105 pertains to cyclists and states clearly:
Ride in single file, except if overtaking another pedal cycle. 
Ride on a cycle path and not the road whenever there is a cycle path available .

 

And a whole lot of other stuff

 

There are cycle lanes in the cradle.

 

And you miss the point completly.