Stretch Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 wow...I only got to page 25 odd, but it is quite obvious this is a no-win situation. Let me ignore the incident that prompted this post. Firstly the cradle residents are arguing/discussing cycling habits with a very small percentage of people cycling in the cradle. I would guess >50% of the cyclists who cycle in the cradle aren't even on the hub or are aware of the angst that is going on here. Secondly, there is some rather unnecessary slander and disrespect going on here. to the residents: Fact of the matter, is that as cradle residents you cannot deny people from using the road (without going through the municipality and appeals). I see your frustration as I have witnessed on a previous thread how *some* cyclists do behave in your area, but that does not imply you have the right to do anything in your power to vent your frustration. To the cyclist: obey the laws. However, as I have said, a very small percentage of people are actually privvy to this discussion. I also see you have meetings between the residents and the cyclists. Is it no then feasible to implement an awareness campaign, and put up signs reminding cyclist to be considerate of cars, and vica versa. Make it visible - put them along the road, in coffee shops etc. As MTBers, we are mostly required to pay fee's for riding in private land, and while this is not private land, I am sure cyclists in the area would be happy to pay a nominal annual fee if they were able to have some level of confidence in enjoying a safe ride. At least that way there could be some sort of accountibility. This does not require a "gatekeeper", but it could offer some sort of accountability if someone is stopped for rising like a "chop". Anyway stop flinging mud and start making people aware on the ground that you are feed up, and at the same time grit your teeth and try and resist taking action, as the sooner you educate, the sooner the problem will go away. whew that goodness for the mtb and our wide open spaces in KZN!!
Danger Dassie Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 God, this has still gone nowhere. A day at the SABC was joy compared to reading this. Ples, CR how serious are you guys really about proactively working a solution? Going by your posts it certainly doesn't seem so. Both of you only seem to respond to direct and puerile attacks and drop your own tone to that. So it does seem to be opposite sides of the same coin. And guys, throwing insults and threats is not going solve anything, seriously. It may be a laugh and yes there have been some good chirps in good humour. Yet reading some of the things here makes a person wonder how safe it would be to ride in the Cradle safely in case some renegade decides to have a go in their car. We need to start looking at the way we ride, if we can't police ourselves then the policing will be enforced. Obviously by the same token this doesn't justify in any way whatsoever endangering cyclists lives by reckless driving, at all!
mr ples Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 ? Do you honestly expect us to take you seriously when you make public postings that are patently wrong? ? I suggest you make an apology to both Andrew and myself. ? ? ? ? Mark you just put your foot in it. - You refer to my remarks as childish, and I don't read properly - You admit now to carrying out an illegal action, riding two abreast, not in a cycle lane - The motorist users the one tool available 'a hooter' to warn you of your dangerous and illegal action, and you now turn this into a show of aggression. - You create an impression that the motorist was driving at high speed, you mention 80km/h, just how you determine this is questionable. - you expect a motorist to apologise because you were in the wrong - Your lawyers letter refers to you and 2 others cyclists being extremely experienced and competent , cycling in a safe manner, yet you now admit it was illegal. - You now distribute a very misleading so called lawyer's letter and post a topic for all to read, naming the motorist and creating totally false impressions. You have lead many people up the garden path. You owe everyone an apology. - You spread rumors of a road blockage, and still refuse to name your source. My advice - check the source sir! In light of the above, are you 100% behind Mark Thijs?
quinton Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Is this all about the big groups and club rides giving residents head aches or just cyclist in general in the area? Just checking if I go out there by myself if I will be a moving target???
The Saint Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 33 Pages and still no closer to a solution. This concerns me in that there have been some pretty good suggestions made by some people within these 33 pages and not one of those suggestions has been run with and discussed in further detail. This just makes me wonder as to the commitment of "anyone" on both sides to actually find some common ground. Maybe it is just easier to sling the mud than to actually sit down and think of amicable solutions that would suit both parties, I don't know. If I may make another suggestion and that would be for both parties to once again sift through these 33 pages, pick out the good ideas and "GET TOGETHER" on the 20th, discuss them further and work towards peace - set the animosity aside for 30 minutes and you may just surprise yourselves that there is more power in unity than in separation. Wars are created by 2 old men who cannot agree to compromise and it is you and I who are the ones who need to kill each other on the battle field because of this whilst they sit an eat cake!!
linnega Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 The solution is really simple' date=' consisting of an awareness drive (sign boards at the roads leading to the cradle area, flyers at the venues used by the cyclists?), and then visible, and legal policing targeting not just one group. [/quote']Logic would suggest so, but I suspect that it won't solve much. Cradle residents are expecting not to be inconvenienced by cyclists on the road and that can only be effected by removing the cyclists. Essentially, that I fear is what they (or the group of 2 represented here) are after. Fact is, no solution is goign to have any impact until the motorists of the area accept that they are going to be inconvenienced by cyclists on the road, and deal with it like they do in the civilised world.
Wannabe Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Can't Admin close this topic? Arguments are being repeated' date=' with no solution to be found here. Can only be sorted out by involved parties in a face to face meeting with a facilitator present.[/quote']
Guest Agteros Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 mailto:no-reply@thehubsa.co.za?subject=unsubscribe cradle route
Andyr249 Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Mr Ples, with all due respect, I am still waiting for replies to my two posts on page 32 amongst others. I have not engaged in calling you any names. I have tried to be civilised with you and engage in a civilised discussion. Yet you have chosen to ignore my civilised attempt to engage with you. You only seem to reply to name calling posts. Based on this it is clear that you and rest of the cradle residents are not serious about any solution to the issue. So while cyclists are trying to resolve the issue you clearly don't want to. How can there be a solution if you cradle residents don't want to try and find one?
markStockton Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 I rest my case. Dear GOD please do! AND CLOSE THE DOOR BEHIND YOU
Cradleresident Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Mr Ples' date=' with all due respect, I am still waiting for replies to my two posts on page 32 amongst others. I have not engaged in calling you any names. I have tried to be civilised with you and engage in a civilised discussion. Yet you have chosen to ignore my civilised attempt to engage with you. You only seem to reply to name calling posts. Based on this it is clear that you and rest of the cradle residents are not serious about any solution to the issue. So while cyclists are trying to resolve the issue you clearly don't want to. How can there be a solution if you cradle residents don't want to try and find one?[/quote'] .If you read the whole thread you would not make this assumption that cradle residents are not looking for a solution. THE FACT IS THAT IT IS THE CRADLE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR A SOLUTION , STARTING AS LONG AGO AS 3 YEARS. Read the thread before making such inane posts.
daggavis Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Rant and Rave' date=' all deception, egos, lies, one-sided stories - But how about the 'Truth'. I have been requested to lay-off the cyclists, WHY? The facts: Mark Thijs posted this topic. - A one sided story has been posted by him, - He was part of a rumor campaign about Cradle residents planning a blockade, - He initiated a lawyer?s letter, and rolled it out to apply to all Cradle residents, - He names Residents from our area by name and by business and implicates them in this one sided story - He exaggerates, - Makes no attempt to resolves issues, only adds fuel to the fire - Apologises that he won?t make proposed meetings, - Watches from the side line, will not intervene to keep the process civil, decent and propagate common respect. - Will not discipline his cronies, when totally out of hand. Mark, Bruce, Andrew and Gang, are you proud of yourselves when referring to the Cradle residents as: Wankers prick Skietepiete childish asshole primitive baboons idiots vigilantes stupid fascists culprits killers murderers **** fools cowards Pluss Tossers Obsessive- compulsive, and using phrases like Slap Ken Reemed by Bubba AK47 up your ring Glock in your face see you in jail, whilst you threaten to Boycott businesses. From the onset, I and other cradle residents requested Decency and Respect. This fell on deaf ears. So we gave you and your cronies just a little bit of the same treatment, now you call for the thread to be ended, request us to give it up, close the topic, deactivate our account etc. WHY? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What ever you got from 1 Cradle Resident, me Mr Ples, you obviously can not handle. Any comments posted by me were in response to some pathetic cyclist?s opinion ? DON?T FORGET YOU STARTED ? PERIOD. The Cradle Residents wish to engage with the responsible Cyclists, who wish to resolve issues in a constructive manner. Our tolerance is running out! Residents in the Cradle have been assaulted, insulted, generally speaking you crap in our bush, litter the area, pee on the road side, use in appropiate sign language, ride more than 3 abreast, break the rules of the road and admit it. My personal feeling is you and others are suffering from a ?guilt conscience? and posted this topic as a diversion tactic. You have entered the Cradle Area, violated it, then I launch a little missile and I get requested by personal emails and calls to stop the onslaught. ? DON?T FORGET YOU STARTED ? PERIOD. To Cradle Residents: Postpone this meeting, lets get all the Residents Associations, Conservancy, Estates, Farmers Unions, Business, CPF?s, FPA?s, Disaster Management, Conserv, other interested and affected parties from the COHWHS and surrounds together. We exhibit the facts and the figures as above, previous minute, and elect reps. We then engage with Government and it?s agencies, and when ready we meet with reps from Organised Cycling. To Responsible Cyclists and Organised Cyclist Groups: Lets see as a staring point, your commitment to the process by disciplining these renegades on this forum. Mark THIJS, irrespective of the incident, that is between you and the other road user, you choose to bring it to this forum and remember - YOU STARTED ? PERIOD. Yours Truly Trevor [/quote'] Trevor, as another hubber commented, you really wring it out of context. I said "I don't cycle in the cradle anymore. You see, I don't respond well if someone deliberately tries to run me over/hoot or mock me by swerving and braking in front of me whilst i'm on my bike. Something in my brain is switched on and I then become a badass Mofo...I might just stick my glock in your face." What don't you understand?? I'm more than happy to wave and greet cradle residents and be curtious if I cycle there. BUT, if you display violent behaviour against me without me giving you reason, you will be greeted with the same attitude. If someone on your farm is threathening to hit you with a construction rod or stab you with a knife, how will you respond to their intent to seriously harm you? Do you prefer me to explain this concept to you in afrikaans?
Jackes Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 I rest my case. Dear GOD please do! You can always speak to us rather, we're a bit closer...
Slowbee Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 I rest my case. Dear GOD please do! You can always speak to us rather' date=' we're a bit closer... [/quote']
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