NCR. Electricity Usage / Charges.

[Delgado]

Cross subsidization of non payers is what its about lads!!

[Shebeen]

You dont understand the system.

 

Its really nothing to do with usage, its to do with purchases. I can buy 150 units every third day and pay 90 cents per unit, but because I prefer to buy 800 or more units once a month I must pay R1.20 per unit.!!!!

 

Wheres the sense in this.?

You're right, that doesn't make sense. You're sure there isn't a check on how long it's been since you last paid?

 

I'm not saying that our payment system is perfect, it's far from it. Post-paid has been phased out quite quickly, but it's not been done that well. a major issue is that most of the systems are not firmware updateable, so there is no way to charge peak/off peak rates. About 95% of all 4million residential customers are pre-paid. Something like 8% of all meters get a zero reading. which means either the guys are not using electricity at all or (more likely I reckon) they are bypassing the meters. I don't agree with giving out free power either. The thought has to be made that if the lightbub is on, it's costing you money.

 

There is a lot to sort out, and most of it is idnetified but the implementation is where it falls short.

 

Please, dont give me the crap about "high consumption user" - nobody gave me a heated pool, nobody gave me underfloor heating, so because I worked hard for 35 years and made a bit of money to enjoy the benefits thereof I must now be predjudiced,in favour of some slapgat who sits under a tree all day cant afford the luxuries?.

 

I suppose you complain about paying such a high tax rate as well. remember there is only one thing worse than paying lots of tax. and that's not qualifying to pay tax. So call me a socialist, but no sympathy for high users from me.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

You're right, that doesn't make sense. You're sure there isn't a check on how long it's been since you last paid?

 

About 95% of all 4million residential customers are pre-paid. Something like 8% of all meters get a zero reading. which means either the guys are not using electricity at all or (more likely I reckon) they are bypassing the meters. I don't agree with giving out free power either. The thought has to be made that if the lightbub is on, it's costing you money.

 

There is a lot to sort out, and most of it is idnetified but the implementation is where it falls short.

 

 

Where do you get those figures Shebeen.?

 

Its not what I am told or lead to believe.

 

In JHB new developments (say in the last 5 years odd) are 95% of the time fitted with pre-paid - but theres huge tracts of neighbourhoods where they still use meter readings - I just cant imagine its only 5% of the total residential population.

 

I am quite prepared to pay for what I use, I have never said differantly and I hope it didnt come across as such, but, I cant see why I must pay more than someone else, simply because I can afford it, and they cant.

 

Well, yeah, I do think your ideas tend towards socialist thinking, but thats okay, we are all differant, I can live with that and I enjoy the debate, however, my belief is firmly capitalistic, if I take risks, work hard, give employment etc why should I be forced to subsidise someone who drifts through life under a tree.?

[Mojoman]

Where do you get those figures Shebeen.?

 

Its not what I am told or lead to believe.

 

In JHB new developments (say in the last 5 years odd) are 95% of the time fitted with pre-paid - but theres huge tracts of neighbourhoods where they still use meter readings - I just cant imagine its only 5% of the total residential population.

 

I am quite prepared to pay for what I use, I have never said differantly and I hope it didnt come across as such, but, I cant see why I must pay more than someone else, simply because I can afford it, and they cant.

 

Well, yeah, I do think your ideas tend towards socialist thinking, but thats okay, we are all differant, I can live with that and I enjoy the debate, however, my belief is firmly capitalistic, if I take risks, work hard, give employment etc why should I be forced to subsidise someone who drifts through life under a tree.?

Agreed.

[Christopher Brunsdon]

...

 

apparently the prepaid meters also have these 'levies'??

 

 

benadeja - where can i get more info on these prepaid meters? who do i contact, what does it cost to install one - and could you recommend a company in joburg-area?

 

Not so sure about Joburg, but there are no levies for prepaid that you get on postpaid.

 

But what you do get is a sliding scale that when you become high usage (> 1500 kw per month) you pay a "day" charge but pay less for your units. These users actually pay less at the end of the day.

[Omlette]

I had the same situation; we have the prepaid box and have two kids. Our bill was always around the R600 mark, now we are paying R1250. I phoned the municipality to question this and got through to a lady. She advised me that in June they had their annual winter tariff and in July was the national tariff. So from September there should be a decrease in the price as the summer tariff will kick in. I was also advised the current electricity unit price is R1.36.

She also said that after the next two increases I should be paying over R2000 a month for the same usage.

[Squier]

So good to hear that we're all getting screwed together! My account was R1300... and it's just my wife and I. Can't wait to bend over again next month!

[Shebeen]

Where do you get those figures Shebeen.?

 

Its not what I am told or lead to believe.

 

 

eskom block tariffs

I'd take it as fairly accurate - he's on the national planning committee, they have rolled out loads of connections since '94. Heard another stat the other day that was surprising. 65% of SAB beer volume is sold in quarts.

 

I know I've taken a fairly hefty slant towards devil's advocate here, because I don't fully disagree with you. I prefer to take a dig at the guys at the top of the pile splurging our tax funds than the unemployed at the bottom waiting for their 'better life for all'. Those of us in the middle keep the whole thing ticking over, and it's a thankless task most of the time.

 

I do urge all to take up these reading issues, as there will definitely be inconsistencies when they smooth data out. It is clear that the elec increases have been large enough for people to stand up and take a notice, and that in itself is a good thing as we really have treated it like an endless commodity. I wonder what the similiar price point for petrol is? I thought it would have been R7/l, but 'car pool' is still a swear word in this country.

[Vuilgoed]

 

I prefer to take a dig at the guys at the top of the pile splurging our tax funds than the unemployed at the bottom waiting for their 'better life for all'.

 

Even if you are playing devil's advocate, I have a problem with this bit of your thinking and agree with Grumpy. Why should I be charged more/taxed to death/made to feel guilty about the fact that I have studied my ass off (all paid for by working thankless jobs such as being a bakery assistant, tending bar, etc) and actually am still studying my ass off, have worked long hard hours and made a positive contribution to this country, many times at the detriment of my social life and to the neglect of my friends and family while these oxygen thieves sit and wait for handouts and then have the F@cking audacity to complain if they don't like what they get.

 

I earn a very nice salary, but it took a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get to where I am today. I couldn't give two cups of luke warm p!ss about those that do not have the personal drive to help themselves and I include all people of all shapes and sizes in that statement.

[mdk555]

My wife and I used to live in a complex in Parklands and our bill (prepaid) was R 250.00 in summer and R 350.00 in Winter. In April we moved to a house in Blouberg Rise and bill jumped to R 800.00 (meter payment). Immediatley threw out all old light bulbs and replaced with energy saving ones and bought a 4 plate gas hob (had a 2 one in Parklands) and now bill has dropped to R 400.00.

 

Water, we cut our bill by only filling toielt cistern when needed as 90% of cistern floats dont work as they should. Busy investigating a borehole and then disconecting toilet cistern from main water line and use borehole water flush the loo.

 

Grey water - will be connecting all grey water outlets like, shower, dishwaher etc to a tank for watering the garden.

 

Solar power - can also be done DIY with huge savings.

 

Allready have a composter (Makro R 800.00) and soon worm farm. Kinda feels good saving some bucks and doing something for Mother Nature.

[Flowta]

I am fuming, smoke coming out of my ears. I just received my August Electricity account from PEC Metering, and it is a total shocker. My account for this month is R1066.27, with a useage of 908 units. For July it was 937 units, but Rand value was slightly less because increased tariffs were not in place yet. June was 724 units, April and May were both the same at 409 units.(strange to have two months exactly the same)

 

The more I tried to explain to the lady working with the accounts that it is impossible for two people staying in a small townhouse (no kids) to use that much electricity,(we do not have an electric stove, we use a gas heater, do not use a tumble drier, both shower once a day, etc) the more she kept on saying the prices increased. I can not get her to understand that I do not contest the increase in tariffs, but the totaly out of context units used. I mean, we do not use more electricity, as there is nothing in our place to use more electricity with. The argument about it being winter does not carry any water, AS THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN USE THAT MANY UNITS.

To get them to come and test the meter will cost me R400.00, only refundable if there is a problem with the meter.

 

What can I do, can not go on like this. This increase in consumption is totaly impossible. Next month it surely will be even more.

 

Only just seen this now.

 

Who is your supplier? Eskom or City of Cape Town?

 

I deal with energy management and energy efficiency for a living.

 

For clients (hotels, office buildings, etc.) we usually advise them to install a meter. This enables them to track and control consumption and demand (for hotels etc. on Time of Use tariff, they can shift the load). It also serves as a check against the suppliers accounts.

 

Send me a PM and we can see what we can do about it.

[Flowta]

PEC metering are sharks... you pay a surcharge to them, called an electricity availablity fee or something... and you pay more for your units (they are like the middle man). I hate the concept - what choice do we have if our landlords don't want to put in prepaid meters... F%^$ers!

 

I've seen this and other dodgy stuff from metering companies.

 

Technically you should have your one meter if they are going to charge you electricity, but some landlords/metering companies charge you based on your square meterage (also depends on your lease agreement). They often charge you a different rate to what is applicable to you, legally you they can charge you more than they themselves pay for the electricity but can only charge you based on what would be applicable if you got direct from Eskom or the municipality.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

My wife and I used to live in a complex in Parklands and our bill (prepaid) was R 250.00 in summer and R 350.00 in Winter. In April we moved to a house in Blouberg Rise and bill jumped to R 800.00 (meter payment). Immediatley threw out all old light bulbs and replaced with energy saving ones and bought a 4 plate gas hob (had a 2 one in Parklands) and now bill has dropped to R 400.00.

 

cut,cut,cut

 

Allready have a composter (Makro R 800.00) and soon worm farm. Kinda feels good saving some bucks and doing something for Mother Nature.

 

Phooew, your power must be cheaper in CT so you get more units, but all been equal, up here in JHB R250.00 would buy you around 200 units of power, however you still need to deduct VAT and your contribution of R90.00 meter tariff, so you wont get more than 120 units of electricity for R250.00 - My geyser alone consumes more than that.

 

I cant see how anyhousehold can run on 120 units of power, your fridge and one light would consume more.

 

..but I like the idea of a composter, something I think I may look into, the soil around us here is dead, you can dig and dig and never see an earthworm, I think that will help regenerate the soil immensely.

[Flowta]

I'd like to know how they measure my usage during "peak hours" and "off peak hours"

Do I have two meters running on timers?

 

I have been informed by council as follows:

Peak hours: 06h00 to 22h00

Off peak 22h00 to 06h00

 

The difference in the rate per kWh is about 40%

 

You would have a load profiling meter, Eskom usually uses Elster or Lands & Gyr but there are others out there.

It can record your demand(kVA) and consumption(kWh),

 

Where are you based? Some municipality's and Eskom are either using or are moving to remote metering(i.e sent by GSM network to a separate location). Some will also allow you to access your account online and see your usage online.

 

What tariff are you on?

You may be on the incorrect tariff, unless you request that they change it. PM me and we can talk.

[Flowta]

The point to keep in mind is that they are unable to maintain a discrepancy.

Soon the reading will recorded as the real value and be charged against the "last" reading

and you will be billed accordingly. It may be too soon to react.

 

Are you suggesting that they are jimmying the meter?

 

If they have changed meters recently it might not be set up correctly. CT ratios are a very easy things to make a mistake with.

 

REcently had a client that thought their kitchen had a daily maximum demand of 600kVA, after some analysis we discovered the CTs had ratios of 800/5 and the meter was set up 200/5. (ie 4 times the amount)

[cat-i]

My wife and I used to live in a complex in Parklands and our bill (prepaid) was R 250.00 in summer and R 350.00 in Winter. In April we moved to a house in Blouberg Rise and bill jumped to R 800.00 (meter payment). Immediatley threw out all old light bulbs and replaced with energy saving ones and bought a 4 plate gas hob (had a 2 one in Parklands) and now bill has dropped to R 400.00.

 

Solar power - can also be done DIY with huge savings.

 

Allready have a composter (Makro R 800.00) and soon worm farm. Kinda feels good saving some bucks and doing something for Mother Nature.

 

 

k, i understand savings.

 

my point is, before i've used one lightbulb, i pay R300. the actual usage is very low - i dont have the statement with me to give figures - but every time electricity cost goes up, the LEVY goes up with that percentage. so i keep on paying more and more, with no incentive at all to save anything. if i switch to soloar heating, i'd still have to pay this levy to charge my cellphone.