Canaris

and vbrakes are very temperemental to set.

untrue wheels.

klapperkop- Groenkloof- Zwartkop(hill between Ladium and PF land)-Spes-kop(closed to the public) Nice bits on the Irene hills and around St Georges Hotel Some nice sandpits between Cullinan and mamolodi.

thank you 012 345 3917

looks suspiciously like a trek................

rather do base training for the crater cruise. 4 hrs in the saddle every weekend.

So they either go out of business - or' date=' hmmm: they go out of business? Sort of a cycling retailer's Hobson's choice... Yep - times are tough and some shops will close. The ones that survive will have to charge prices they can afford to operate at and provide the service that will make people come back... [/quote'] at last a bit of intelligent debate about pricing and service.

at last someone else who sees it the same way as I do.

Why should they' date=' this whole debate was fuelled by a few hubbers, whom if I dare say so have limited knowledge and who definitly suffer from middle management syndrome(MMS). (you know, that oak who always knows better and who can always do it better but never does. BEcause there (sic- Their) delivery is limited to lip service, some serious under achievers that have issues with people making a success of their businesses) The entire debate was mainly by a few individuels who if I dare say so definitly suffer from the aforementioned, who have basically achieved very little in life and is now wanting to vent their frustration for under achieving on those who are making a go of it. It's easy to chirp if you are not in the trenches, if you are not the one that is accountable. Such a debate would only be harmfull to the industry and no serious good can come of it. These people should rather explain the thoughtlesness behind the comments that they made, why seek to harm those that are seeking to improve/better and promote our sport. Bear inmind that as an investment, a cycle shop is a bad idea, it does not generate the returns that would justify the capital that you need to invest, but these people do it anyway and as such we need to ensure that they remain around, in order for us to get what we want. No online shop can quickly sort out the gears jumping at 6pm on a friday if you are racing the next morning, only you LBS can, and if he cant make a living he aint gonna be there to do that. However our MMS suffering individuals cant see that, hence there (sic) reason for suffering from MMS. Please guys, grow up. You actualy cant do a better job, that is why you waste your employers time persuing these vendetta's on the hub. If you focus on your work you will be able to earn more so the increase prices should not effect you [/quote'] I have taken the liberty of editting (only slightly) your post. HR being a editor for a living can finish off the rough bits. You seem to be very annoyed at not being senior enough to be in middle management. Your incohert ranting also reflect a loyalty to a LBS. Unfortunately, it does more damage than good. (your ranting, not yoiur loyalty). Obviously, you are not a consumer who is sick of paying exhorbatant prices to float someone elses poor investment. But anyway, the debate will go like this: Retailer: I have to eat you know, that is way it is expensive. Consumer: Me too, that is why I now shop with someone else online. (by the way I have learnt (by necessity) to service my bike). Retailer: Don't be unfair, what about the warrantees? Consumer: Never needed them, never used them, and last time I returned my shimano shifters to you............ No need for a debate on this one. Firstly I earn enough to not to worry about the prices, I actually believe they are reasonable, Secondly I deal with a whole bunch of MMS's everyday, they only differance is I pay there salaries, even though they believe they can do my job better than I can. Thirdly, Yes I am loyal to my local LBS, yes they have helped me a lot in the past, and yes I want to see them succeed, however due to the nature of my work (and not my LBS) I know whet the margins are, both for the wholesaler as well as the LBS, and me personaly I would rather put my money i the bank at no risk, they don't however, their passion is what drives them and we ultimatly as the consumer get to reap the benefit of this. my apologies for mis-interpreting your fustrations with "middle management". The emotions around this debate seems to get everyone a bit hot under the collar. The big question remains, will enough people buy bicycles at the "new" improved prices to give the retailer (et al- and all) the money they so desperately (according to them) need to survive? Does this small group believe that the down turn in the economy only hurting them and not all the other consumers (who they expect to pay the bills)? THe big economics 101 puzzle remains when will the demand for new bicycles no longer justify or support a controlled (ie increased pricing) of the supply? The social question is: Is the industry making cycling an elitist sport only accessible to the upper class? How will the price increases help transform the sport to a representative accessible sport for the majority of South Africa? How does more expensive bicycles get more people to start and participate in cycling?

The great debate is about supply and demand. On the supply side the retailers (et al) wants to increase the price. (thinking that the demand is enough to justify these increases) On the demand side (That is us the consumer and majority of hubbers) are saying that a price increase will definitely decrease the demand for such items and therefore is a very bad idea. Now the questions are: How addicted are you to cycling to be willing to pay the increased prices? Will the market collapse if the prices increase? will the retailers kill the sport to save the industry?

Why should they' date=' this whole debate was fuelled by a few hubbers, whom if I dare say so have limited knowledge and who definitly suffer from middle management syndrome(MMS). (you know, that oak who always knows better and who can always do it better but never does. BEcause there (sic- Their) delivery is limited to lip service, some serious under achievers that have issues with people making a success of their businesses) The entire debate was mainly by a few individuels who if I dare say so definitly suffer from the aforementioned, who have basically achieved very little in life and is now wanting to vent their frustration for under achieving on those who are making a go of it. It's easy to chirp if you are not in the trenches, if you are not the one that is accountable. Such a debate would only be harmfull to the industry and no serious good can come of it. These people should rather explain the thoughtlesness behind the comments that they made, why seek to harm those that are seeking to improve/better and promote our sport. Bear inmind that as an investment, a cycle shop is a bad idea, it does not generate the returns that would justify the capital that you need to invest, but these people do it anyway and as such we need to ensure that they remain around, in order for us to get what we want. No online shop can quickly sort out the gears jumping at 6pm on a friday if you are racing the next morning, only you LBS can, and if he cant make a living he aint gonna be there to do that. However our MMS suffering individuals cant see that, hence there (sic) reason for suffering from MMS. Please guys, grow up. You actualy cant do a better job, that is why you waste your employers time persuing these vendetta's on the hub. If you focus on your work you will be able to earn more so the increase prices should not effect you [/quote'] I have taken the liberty of editting (only slightly) your post. HR being a editor for a living can finish off the rough bits. You seem to be very annoyed at not being senior enough to be in middle management. Your incohert ranting also reflect a loyalty to a LBS. Unfortunately, it does more damage than good. (your ranting, not yoiur loyalty). Obviously, you are not a consumer who is sick of paying exhorbatant prices to float someone elses poor investment. But anyway, the debate will go like this: Retailer: I have to eat you know, that is way it is expensive. Consumer: Me too, that is why I now shop with someone else online. (by the way I have learnt (by necessity) to service my bike). Retailer: Don't be unfair, what about the warrantees? Consumer: Never needed them, never used them, and last time I returned my shimano shifters to you............ No need for a debate on this one.

The idea of price fixing ext requires a bit of analysis of the entire manufacturer-consumer chain. Each actor in the chain has a expectation and purpose. THe manufacturer makes a product and wishes to sell the product to as many people world wide as possible. Obviously, he wants to create a strong brand identity, and therefore along with the product he offers a support service to sort out any "problems' the consumer has with the product. (warrantees ext) The manufacturer may have a certain pricing strategy in mind to support his brand identity, as exclusive/ value for money ext. When a manufacturer wishes to penetrate a foreign market (like South AFrica) he enters a deal with a local distributor to distribute his product in the market. As part of the deal he gives exclusive distribution rights to the distributor in exchange that the distributor will handle the support service end for that market. The manufacturer may also dictate the brand identity, marketing strategy and pricing. THE bottom line is the distributor manages the brand identity in the market in exchange for exclusive distribution rights (TAKE NOTE: here is the first chink in the network armour). (Between the distributor and the manufacturer there is the import/export agent who deals with insurance, shipping taxes ext.) Now the distributor adds his mrak-up, calculates the RRP ext based on what the market can handle, what the pricing strategy and BRand Identity dictates ext, and ships to retailers. Retailers place stock in their shops and hope for the consumer to buy. However, not all retailers have invested their own money in their shops. Notr all retailers see their profit as "my salary, pluss a bit of equity". MAny retailers have taken out loans from investors that demand better than bank interest rates from the "investments". So now not only do shop owners need to make a "respectable salary" they need to return better than interest dividents to their stake holders. SO when you buy from the LBS you have to pay the bank loan, the salary and the dividents that he needs to declare at the end of the year. (Now the RRP does not allow for that) So the solution: Running a cycling shop is a business, not an investment oppertunity. If you invested your money in a cycle shop, it is a bad investment. Selling bicycles is a bad profit generator (only 35%) maintaining a bicycle (and selling spares) is good business (up to 100% mark up, and you don't pay impoirt dutied on parts). So if your business model is based on selling complete bikes, it won't work. Distributors have to follow the manufacturers brand identity. If they don't and sales drop, the manufacturer may enquire why the "market" is not responding. Also if new distributors constantly approach the manufacturer to replace the present distributors, maybe they will. Lastly, competitors are like sharks, they love bloted markets. If SRAM undercuts SHimano prices then they get SHimano's market share. Customers will always like this. I hope I have added to the debate.

From what planet did you surface? Maybe there are new names on the board' date=' but there is surely a very old piece of lady wood that must dissappear from the scene. And then let us not speak about the exclusivity of team managers / coaches / mechanics that always represent this county when there are big events such as Jnr Worlds, Olympics, Paralympics, Tri-Nations and Commomwealth Games. WTF, how are other passionate people in this sport ever going to get exposure and experience if these seats are hogged all the time by certain individuals. Have heard during Jnr Worlds that 2 of them in specific doesn't have a good reputation down under but CSA are persevering with these 2. We still have to see whether the new board will live up to the standards to build up the reputation of CSA as previously, nothing much was done,[/quote'] hijack off one of the stated purposes oif CSA was to promote commuting and tourism. Yes competition is important, but without functional bicycle usage it is basically useless.. CSA should focus on setting the foundation of cycling culture before puting the roof (competition) on, hijack on you can continue moping about a poor olympics

eating less will save the money needed for your new fulcrum mtb wheels......

Cut your 96 kgs down, by training more and eating less.

I am not a cricketer or swimmer. ASA had this debate earlier this year when ASA attacked Bruce Fordyce and Nic Bester. The Road running guys were not impressed.

there's a thing called Google.. http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI5/layout.asp?MenuId=MTI2MzM Just out of interest' date=' what should the other points have said ? "Touring around on bicyles at a slower speed than racing cycling" This all sounds a bit like you have too much time on your hands. Why not propose something to them rather than nitpick ?[/quote'] As a statement of purpose this one is not good. It starts of in clear detail when it comes to ROAD cycling, (but diferentiates between recreational and competitive, in respect to the fight between PPA and SACF), side steps TRACK cycling, pays some notice of Mountain Biking (acknowldeges only two disciplines, where RSA cyclists are active), fobs of BMX (despite having a world champ here) and makes passing reference to the lagest component of cyclists (commuters) and introduces TOURING to RSA in one word, dispite a implicit reference in "Cycling for All" statement earlier. With such a statement of intent, where is the main focus of effort go? Yes nitpicking, but look back at the last few years and ask yourself, where has CSA focused its main efforts?

Cycling for all - Intro UCI Golden Bike series: the ?World Cup? of Cycling for All Numbering 8 at present, and perhaps growing in number in the future, the events that have gained the UCI Golden Bike label represent the world?s best-organised Cycling for All events. They meet strict criteria regarding the quality of organisation, specified in advance by the UCI, whose observance ensures that the participants benefit from a superior level of provisions. They must, however, be accessible to all types of cyclists. Cycle-sport events: races to cater for every taste Very varied in terms of the number of kilometres, the type of route or the level of difficulty, the cycle-sport races included on the international calendar of ?Cycling for All? ? which can be accessed on the UCI Internet site ? are all fully-fledged races, that is they are timed and made official by the publication of a final classification. Bike rides : discovering new regions, on bicycle and in groups There is no time-keeping at these events, and they are intended to appeal to a wider public without a competitive spirit. Their marked route provides an opportunity to discover the joys of exploration by bicycle, either alone or as a family, without too many constraints. It is seen less as tourism ? the terms cycle-touring or cycle-tourism are disappearing ? than as gatherings of those who love the bicycle.

notice how specific 2.1.1 is and notice how as the list grows on the drafters start getting bored or scared or confused, especially as they hit 2.1.4 and 2.1.5 and then lose the plot with 2.1.6 "every kind of BMX cycling". They finally end their misery with 2.1.8 "touring", what ever that means. They leave out "Trail" and "indoor" cycling and Cycling soccer whcih are all addressed in UCI rules. What do they mean by "UCI concept of "Cycling for All" ".

PARK TOOLS

Found this on the back end of the CSA website (and in their consitution): Article 2: 2. VISION, MISSION AND OBJECTIVES 2.1 The Association has as its vision, mission and objectives, the promotion, growth, development and for these purposes, the control, of cycling in all its forms, including but not limited to: 2.1.1 competitive road racing and time trials; 2.1.2 recreational road cycling, including the UCI concept of "Cycling for All" 2.1.3 track cycling; 2.1.4 competitive off-road cycling including cross country mountain biking and downhill mountain biking; 2.1.5 recreational off-road cycling including cross country mountain biking and downhill mountain biking; 2.1.6 every kind of BMX cycling; 2.1.7 commuting; 2.1.8 touring. Enough Said.

You only talk of Rupert in hushed tones. He is still alive and well in Centurion. Last I heard he had broken his collar bone or sumfink, so he is off the bike. He has also taken to the dark side. The subvets await his return .......

Anton you have grown, and got a tan. Which one is you, the one in the middle with the liestrong armband??

Cherry MTB Challenge http://www.entrytime.com/media/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.entrytime.com/media/images/spacer.gifEvent Date:22 Nov 2008Province:Free StateVenue:Meulspruit Dam FicksburgOnline Start Date:22 Aug 2008Online End Date:20 Nov 2008Contact:BoetContact Number:084 600 4519 Found this on entryonline. Only in the freestate would you contact boet, and everyone would know who you were refering to.