Riding up single track in Tokai

[jimmy hardtail]

How about we fix up the old dh track that runs from about the 2nd jump all the way down to the quarry. Then it could all be one way and at least that route would be usable for dh on a weekend morning. Which is when it sometimes seems that the tour de france is riding up the trails.

[DJR]

I give up!

OK, I've changed my mind (about giving up).

 

My personal preference of how I would like to ride Tokai is not important here (and neither should any single individuals' be). What is important is what could work for the whole of Tokai and all (or at least the vast majority) of its' riders.

 

A good starting point would be the IMBA rules as quoted on p1 of this thread. For the forseeable future Tokai single track will stay mostly bi-directional (except Downhill only downhill). Making the singletrack uni-directional at this time will effectively halve the distance riders could do, and that will NOT fly with the majority (see poll results). Doubling the distance by building significant new single track may make this possible though. Wonderfull idea that, and we should all work towards it, but for now, the IMBA guidelines make most sense to me.

 

How would I prefer Tokai, personally? Without crowds and overcrowding so that I can ride up, down, sideways if I felt like it, but that is selfish, I know. So I ride very early or after lunch on the weekends and then it is almost deserted. I would also like to see more singletrack with more technical jumps, drops, rollers etc. That is why I'm there whenever I can make it for approved building and maintenance days.

[DJR]

We rode Tokai on Sunday and it was packed, had no issues riding up the single. It's about being polite, friendly and accommodating.

 

We got off a few times going up when guys were coming down, and we carried on riding up when guys stopped for us. No issue!

 

The only problem, is with the more arrogant types, that don’t acknowledge or greet when you stop for them, but that’s a personality flaw

 

+1

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Hmm Any black route should be one way only my R10000000000000000000 worth.

Vasbyt should be split into 2 tracks from the jumps up Black and up till the jumps blue as im sure its not worthy of a Black marking.

 

This is already the case - the up route continues off to the right of the 3rd jump, and goes through the forest. That is the route that the UP riders will be directed to take once the signage is in. They should be taking it now, in fact, as the rest of Vasbyt (from that divert upwards) is classed as Downhill only, and is marked as such at the top.

 

The Bridal paths MUST be one way. It is a dangerous piece of track coming up or down and there is not much space to pull over either way.

 

This I agree with, in principle. I don't know why anyone would want to go UP there!

 

Maybe its time for The parks to get a dedicated bunch of MTBers to help in this. Give advice, mark tracks, no entry boards, rules etc. Same as u have specialists in other areas, logging etc then they should have some for the trails.

 

There are already guys like that. They're called the Trail Gnomes. They wear little hats with AMARider on them, and carry shovels & axes wherever they go. Ware the trail gnome. He is a mortal enemy of the Trail Troll!

[mach7-7]

haha!

 

Please don't, DJR... Even though this thread has multiple arguments and "discussions" going on, there are still relevant points being made if we dig through all the sarcasm, failed wit and general ignorance that prevails in some posts.

 

Mach 7-7, yourself, Pain & a number of others have all raised relevant points, and Mach is right - the longer this debilitating debate goes on, the more we are separating our wonderful sport, and the eden that is Tokai.

 

I, for one, do not want this to happen.

 

I think most of the confusion is being borne out of the lack of differentiation between Downhill Singletrack (being a specific Downhill trail) and the other Singletrack sections. The 2 are not mutually exclusive, the Downhill being uni-directional and all the rest bi-directional.

 

A singletrack section that goes down a hill is not automatically a piece of Downhill singletrack. But, a singletrack section that has been designated as DOWNHILL, is automatically one way only - down.

 

I think that it is very important to note that the previous thread (as Pain or Shine pointed out) was catering to the dangers and legalities of riding up the trails that are designated as DOWNHILL trails. The previous thread was not catering to the rest of the singletrack sections, which are all, until further notice, bi-directional.

 

Mach - I for one would be glad to share a beer with you after a build / ride session. And keep on up with the ideas!

 

 

Yo CPTmayhem, we can share a beer anytime, and I hope you remember to send me a PM for the next trailbuilding date

 

Pain or Shine, now worries man. You never offended me and by the same token I hope I never offended you. By the way I am aware of those rules that listed. They are so general though and do not get into the nitty gritty... If you read the one part (pardon me as I cannot remember the heading) it states that one must not create new trails but in the same sentence it is saying that we must sensitive towards different soil types and learn to identify when a trail could get damaged by water, erosion etc... Very wishy washy, no committment really... you know, what do you do then, forget the trail until the water drains or ride around it.. or pro-actively re route... eish!! A very delicate issue

 

But something we can all do, without the permission of Sanparks is make our own meeting: venue (preferably one with some cold lagers), time etc and actually introduce ourselves in person and have a lekker Phat chat about how to go forward. From what I have read and from the chaps that I have spoken to we have a very knowledgable and determined group of people who could definitely provide a means of looking after rider interest in Tokai.

 

So guys, lets do a meet and greet Any ideas welcome.... and sorry to David16V for highjacking your thread...

[(Deon)]

No. I don’t agree with that!

I only have limited periods when I can ride Tokai and I want to ride the singletrack both ways.

 

We rode Tokai on Sunday and it was packed, had no issues riding up the single. It's about being polite, friendly and accommodating.

 

We got off a few times going up when guys were coming down, and we carried on riding up when guys stopped for us. No issue!

 

The only problem, is with the more arrogant types, that don’t acknowledge or greet when you stop for them, but that’s a personality flaw and will get a snide comment from me

 

I know, we should be careful what we wish for. I didn't think the ST was an issue until today. I understand the reasoning for unidirectional DH tracks, but until this thread, there were no conflicts on the remaining ST..

[leet22]

Hmm I think only the DH tracks should be one way. If u have to ride from the bottom to the top of Tokai on jeep its going to be mighty boring. And its been 2 way so long u going to have lots of guys breaking the rules if they made.

Surely we can share the St and just give way to other riders?

 

[grb285]

All in favour of trail schedules? i.e. No singletrack climbing between the times of 9am and 12pm.

 

Get your climb on early or late, but not when the bulk of the riders are descending.

Personally I'm not too keen on this idea. For some climbing technical singletrack is what gets their stoke on. The system is simple, and guys should be aware of each other. In summer this would KILL tokai as climbing on those farm roads is hot. It's also boring, and I find if I don't ascend in the forests I go crazy.

[grb285]

I ride some singletrack uphill but always give way to people coming down. In the jeeptracks I feel I have right of way going up and hold my line (as per IMBA), but gerenally ride on the LHS of the road.

 

I feel that ALL singletarck should be marked one way in Tokai - there are just too many people to allow bidirectional trails.

 

Most people would hate to have the fun of a downhill run interrupted by people riding up - me included, so I get out of the their way.

 

I expect all uphillers on singletrack to move out of my way too. When the track is relatively flat is becomes a problem (which way is actually uphill) - hence still need right of way signage.

 

IT IS TIME FOR ONE WAY SIGNAGE ON ALL TRACKS IN TOKAI!

No, I disagree wholehearted with your view. Read my previous post. It's not all about going down singletracks. Shees, the OP of this thread has really opened a can of worms here. No, it will RUIN Tokai. Stop being difficult and learn to yield for ascenders. Don't expect ascenders to move, you move. Those are the rules. Learn to live with it, just like paying taxes, getting flu, and women. All of these are a pain, but certainly necessary in life. Use common sense and be courteous. It goes a long way. You'll find both parties end up giving and taking.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Personally I'm not too keen on this idea. For some climbing technical singletrack is what gets their stoke on. The system is simple, and guys should be aware of each other. In summer this would KILL tokai as climbing on those farm roads is hot. It's also boring, and I find if I don't ascend in the forests I go crazy.

 

What do you mean "go" crazy? Aren't you already there?

 

Seriously though - I agree here. Keep the ST itself Bi-directional. The DH tracks should be DH only.

 

Let's hope the signage comes along soon...

[grb285]

How about we fix up the old dh track that runs from about the 2nd jump all the way down to the quarry. Then it could all be one way and at least that route would be usable for dh on a weekend morning. Which is when it sometimes seems that the tour de france is riding up the trails.

Great idea. I'm hoping this is on the cards. With the increased traffic at Tokai it makes sense to open up the area. PorS?

[(Deon)]

Great idea. I'm hoping this is on the cards. With the increased traffic at Tokai it makes sense to open up the area. PorS?

 

on the cards, but'll be bigger, better, badder, bouncier, but 'bove-all sustainable!

[#Pete#]

No, I disagree wholehearted with your view. Read my previous post. It's not all about going down singletracks. Shees, the OP of this thread has really opened a can of worms here. No, it will RUIN Tokai. Stop being difficult and learn to yield for ascenders. Don't expect ascenders to move, you move. Those are the rules. Learn to live with it, just like paying taxes, getting flu, and women. All of these are a pain, but certainly necessary in life. Use common sense and be courteous. It goes a long way. You'll find both parties end up giving and taking.

 

I haven't seen any of these "rules" posted anywhere at Tokai, nor have I seen them applied. To me it looks like the ascenders generally give way, like I do. It is much easier to do that, and interrupts flow much less IMO. I appreciate there is disagreement and no clear consensus so I ride carefully (and nowadays very early or very late to avoid too many poeple with no clear idea)

 

I agree that singletracks can go uphill - don't get me wrong. Just that our trails are now too full to have bidirectional traffic. Some should be marked down and some up and they will be safe for all to enjoy.

 

To my mind the fight should be about which direction the existing trails should be marked as. A few flat ones could even be birectional with big warnings.

[david16v]

One thing nobody has mentioned (from scanning through the posts).

Traffic volumes on the Tokai single tracks have increased in the past few years.

One can just take a look at the parking areas on a Saturday/Sunday morning!!

 

This in turn means that the single tracks will erode much quicker than before, especially in the winter.

 

Has anyone ever proposed new trails to SANparks to alleviate the stress off these original `old` trails?

[(Deon)]

If you read the one part (pardon me as I cannot remember the heading) it states that one must not create new trails but in the same sentence it is saying that we must sensitive towards different soil types and learn to identify when a trail could get damaged by water, erosion etc... Very wishy washy, no committment really... you know, what do you do then, forget the trail until the water drains or ride around it.. or pro-actively re route... eish!! A very delicate issue

 

 

Part of the disadvantage of subscribing to an association based in the states is this: Before the protected land bill prohibiting any form of mechanical transport kicked in, trail development was seeing hundreds of miles of mechanically built trails being installed per mountain. When the IMBA refers to knowing what will be damaged when ridden while wet, they assume that there is the capacity in the park to detour or divert. Not so in our 30kms patch of green.. but [...long pause...] it is an association that has fought for trails worldwide, with rules that made enough sense for MTBing to finally and officially be included in the recreation policy of parks in 2002...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

One thing nobody has mentioned (from scanning through the posts).

Traffic volumes on the Tokai single tracks have increased in the past few years.

One can just take a look at the parking areas on a Saturday/Sunday morning!!

 

This in turn means that the single tracks will erode much quicker than before, especially in the winter.

 

Has anyone ever proposed new trails to SANparks to alleviate the stress off these original `old` trails?

 

Read again. You missed it. Several times, in fact.

 

Yes, there will be increased volume. But then, guess what? Maintenance will just have to increase. Wow! It's already increasing!

 

Surely... surely... yes! That means that the effect of more people on the trails has and is being realised. Hmmm...