Deep section wheels

[nuge]

I can see it all comes down to personal pref and costs. Any comments (Feedbacks) on the Mavic deep sections???

I have a set of cosmics (sl version, clincher, 52mm). they aren't as light as the other wheelsets mentioned here, but i've found that they roll really smoothly and are strong and stiff. they're perfect for me, being a slightly heavier guy who can push a bit on the flats. the first time i used them in a funride i finished a minute ahead of my start group so i'm sold.

 

just remember deep sections really only make a difference if you're a strong rider who can keep a high tempo on the flats (say 35-40km/h) and will suit guys who need the aero advantage to keep a high tempo on the front or make a break.

 

failing that you're probably sitting in the bunch where they aren't doing any good, or you're a 100 pound nothing and are waiting for the climbs in which case you'd be better off with the shallowest, lightest rims you can afford!

 

that being said, good tyres help so much more than anything else. hope that helps.

[gummibear]

Campy Shamal Ultra

 

[dracs]

http://bethelcycle.com/articles/warning-do-not-over-inflate-clincher-tires.-pg296.htm

The article references a Zipp document with recomended pressures for different weights and weather conditions etc - but that link doesn't seem to work. Do you have those docs or can ypou point me to them? tks

Edited October 26, 2011 by dracs

[gummibear]

We generally recommend our maximum limit at 275 lbs. That is not to say that every Zipp wheel is right (or wrong) for you. We strongly believe in having the right wheel for the right application. The needs of a 220 lb sprinter are different from those of a 115 lb triathlete. If you are at or above 190 lbs, we strongly recommend you consider the MAX 404 or 808. These wheels have additional spokes that offer better stiffness and cornering confidence for someone at that weight. Keep in mind - this is a guideline. There are very strong riders at 180 lbs who may prefer the MAX, and very smooth-riding 225 lb riders who may prefer the standard wheel.

Recommended maximum weight for specific wheels:

 

190 lbs (86kg) for 202 and 303 tubular

225 lbs (102kg) for Team Issue, 404, 808, and 1080

Above 190 lbs (86kg), consider MAX 404 and 808

275 lbs (125kg): Cyclocross, MAX, Track, Disc wheels

 

Tire choice depends highly on user preference and conditions. To summarize, a 21mm has superior aerodynamics with our rims; a 23mm is larger and subsequently has better ride quality and rim protection, but at a slight aero penalty. Here are some questions you can ask that will help guide your decision:

 

 

Triathlon/Time trial? In general – 21mm.

Road racing? In general – 23mm.

Training and/or daily riding? 23mm+

 

Dry? 21mm at normal recommended pressure.

Wet? 23mm at a slightly lower pressure.

 

Smooth roads? 21mm at normal recommended pressure.

Rough roads? 23mm at a slightly lower pressure.

 

User prefers slight aero benefit of 21's at the expense of a little ride comfort, rim protection, and rolling resistance? Use 21mm.

User prefers slightly better ride comfort, rim protection, and rolling resistance of 23's at the expense of a little aero? Use 23mm.

 

Rider weighs less? 21mm.

Rider weighs more? 23mm.

[The_Break]

Where is this referenced from? 10mm vs 0.7in looks a bit suspect.

[Squirrel]

I have a set of cosmics (sl version, clincher, 52mm). they aren't as light as the other wheelsets mentioned here, but i've found that they roll really smoothly and are strong and stiff. they're perfect for me, being a slightly heavier guy who can push a bit on the flats. the first time i used them in a funride i finished a minute ahead of my start group so i'm sold.

 

just remember deep sections really only make a difference if you're a strong rider who can keep a high tempo on the flats (say 35-40km/h) and will suit guys who need the aero advantage to keep a high tempo on the front or make a break.

 

failing that you're probably sitting in the bunch where they aren't doing any good, or you're a 100 pound nothing and are waiting for the climbs in which case you'd be better off with the shallowest, lightest rims you can afford!

 

that being said, good tyres help so much more than anything else. hope that helps.

 

Thanks. Looking at using them for Ironman races. Eying the new SR. Much cheaper than Zipps that i realy like.

[LOOK695]

Apologies for the hijack gentlemen, but I have the following questions...

 

If the Deep Sections { Clinchers } are heavier than lets say a Dura Ace 7900 wheel or a Mavic Rsys ....Why go that route...?

 

Does it take less effort to turn because of the "Aero ness " of the Deep sections than the lighter wheel... ?

 

Hijack off

According to Zipp, a deep section wheel (even though slightly heavier) will be faster in most conditions because of the aero benefits.

[gummibear]

According to Zipp, a deep section wheel (even though slightly heavier) will be faster in most conditions because of the aero benefits.

 

Ultimately you want a set of these at 1130 for a set of 60mm deep clinchers

 

http://www.lightweight.info/en/products/standard-c.html

[Jakkals.]

I thought the lower the psi the better resistance??

[LOOK695]

Ultimately you want a set of these at 1130 for a set of 60mm deep clinchers

 

http://www.lightweight.info/en/products/standard-c.html

That is insanely lite for 60mm clinchers. I am sceptical though of those carbon fibre spokes My Enve 65 clinchers come in at 1600g and I know that they are strong and if aspoke goes, it is an easy and cost effective repair

[Minion]

I thought the lower the psi the better resistance??

I've also read that from various sources. Hard tyres are supposed to lead to too much bouncing when ridden on a rough road surface. Softer tyres lose energy due to flexing of the sidewalls. Presumably there's a sweet spot in the middle for each wheel+tyre combination.

 

I actually set out to test this using a power meter and the Chung Virtual Elevation method (Google it), but my test course wasn't sufficient to get good data. Repeating the tests on a better course are on my list of things to do at some point in the future.

[Johan Bornman]

 

This table brings some sanity into the debate.

 

Maximum pressure is not as cut and dried as it seems. The rim effectively has two maximum pressures: 1) The rim tape. What pressure it can handle before caving in or splitting.

2) The rim bead. The pressure the rim's sidewalls can take (when new), before they bend open and release the tyre with a bang. As the rim gets older and braking surface wears, the max reduces significantly.

 

On top of this, the tyre's max has a rating. For the same tyre, this rating will go smaller and smaller as the tyre's size - 19mm - 21mm - 23mm - 25mm increases.

 

So, in summary: what was that maximum pressure you mentioned again?

[LOOK695]

My son is looking for wheels. He is into racing. His weight is +70kg (not sure).

He is starting to nag me about getting deep sections. He say he will pay money back ???

He saw the Blackspade wheels, price not to bad compared to some other brands. I am doing some research before buying, would like to buy the right wheels

Blackspade wheels seem to offer a decent package as well as Sentiinel. Maybe some fellow hubbers that are using these wheels can give some feedback? For your son I would recommend a profile of not more than 50mm on the front.

[Johan Bornman]

I've also read that from various sources. Hard tyres are supposed to lead to too much bouncing when ridden on a rough road surface. Softer tyres lose energy due to flexing of the sidewalls. Presumably there's a sweet spot in the middle for each wheel+tyre combination.

 

I actually set out to test this using a power meter and the Chung Virtual Elevation method (Google it), but my test course wasn't sufficient to get good data. Repeating the tests on a better course are on my list of things to do at some point in the future.

 

 

Yes, there is a sweet spot and then RR flattens out with increased pressure. There was a graph showing a couple of brands at various pressures with their dynamic RRs plotted, on the interweb thing somewhere. A guy called Terry Morse did it and it was a very popular document in the early 1990s when the real big shift towards clinchers accellerated. Perhaps someone will google it.

 

The brands won't be relevant anymore since I remember Avocet in there, Michelin (though still around) and some tubby exotics.

 

Edit: There is no point on that graph where a lower pressure has a lower RR. RR is always inversely proportional up to a point where the benefits of more pressure diminish to zero.

 

RR is not related to energy loss due to bouncing around though, this is a different issue.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Johan Bornman

[smerds]

I have a set of cosmics (sl version, clincher, 52mm). they aren't as light as the other wheelsets mentioned here, but i've found that they roll really smoothly and are strong and stiff. they're perfect for me, being a slightly heavier guy who can push a bit on the flats. the first time i used them in a funride i finished a minute ahead of my start group so i'm sold.

 

just remember deep sections really only make a difference if you're a strong rider who can keep a high tempo on the flats (say 35-40km/h) and will suit guys who need the aero advantage to keep a high tempo on the front or make a break.

 

failing that you're probably sitting in the bunch where they aren't doing any good, or you're a 100 pound nothing and are waiting for the climbs in which case you'd be better off with the shallowest, lightest rims you can afford!

 

that being said, good tyres help so much more than anything else. hope that helps.

 

I have a set of the same (cosmic sl) wheels. They are great and if I push a little at the front it is easy to open up a gap. They are heavier to climb but not "slower" than my training wheels.

 

Since I'm a heavier rider I even ride deep sections (52mm) in the wind, no problems .....

[urbanroyal]

According to Zipp, a deep section wheel (even though slightly heavier) will be faster in most conditions because of the aero benefits.

 

Thanx...