Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[JGR]

I read the secret race.

 

This story of everyone was doing it is a myth put out by people like Landis and other apologists. It is complete rubbish and needs to be put to rest for two reasons.

1 if everyone is doing it is no excuse. If lots of men rape women that is no excuse for rape. If lots of people drive drunk that is no excuse. Morality is morality and what is wrong is wrong. Wrong does not become right If a lot of people say so.

2 Not everyone was doing it. There were honest people with morality that were forced out of the sport because they refused to cheat. What about them?

What % do you think were clean? I was wondering why so few that rode in that era have come out to absolutely deny any doping now that all the dirt is out - surely more riders who finished near the back that would have had better careers would be more vocal about it?

[HappyMartin]

 

What % do you think were clean? I was wondering why so few that rode in that era have come out to absolutely deny any doping now that all the dirt is out - surely more riders who finished near the back that would have had better careers would be more vocal about it?

 

Interesting point and I have no idea. I have read a number of cases where people did a race or two and then pulled out and people who were not given contracts because they wouldn't dope. Of course the dopers will say they were not very good anyway but we will never know. I feel quite sure that there were careers that never got off the ground over these issues.

 

I know that this is a LA thread and often degenerates into a LA vs the cheats that talked thing but really the difference is just a matter of degree. A cheater that won a lot vs those that didn't. Like asking who has best shaped turd in my opinion.

[HeyYou]

Just read the December Bicycling (been away) and an interesting comment by Malcolm Lange about why he left Europe.

 

He says doping was rife and he came 'home' because he refused to dope.

 

Read a similar thread on Velonews about some 'up and coming' US cyclists in the 90s.

 

Must have been soul destroying for these guys.

[Jaco-fiets]

i'm sorry, but i dont think he should get off that easy. All the people who's lives he ruined (andreu's etc), and now he wants to make a confession? The ONLY reason he wants a confession is because it no longer makes financial sense to deny. If he makes a confession and comes clean, theres another few hundred mill in book deals and sponsorships. The whole thing is a game. He is the type of person who would confess, even if he was clean, just to make money

 

and i hope he makes lots of money off this! Where can i pre order a couple of copies of his up and coming book............

Edited January 6, 2013 by Jaco-fiets

[HeyYou]

and i hope he makes lots of money off this! Where can i pre order a couple of copies of his up and coming book............

 

are you a priest?

 

Perhaps his confession.

[Jaco-fiets]

are you a priest?

 

Perhaps his confession.

 

Funny

 

Im sure guys like nike, oakley dread a confession. He will spin money off this and most of that money will come from the people that flame him. Look at the length of this thread.......................

Edited January 6, 2013 by Jaco-fiets

[GrumpyOldGuy]

What % do you think were clean? I was wondering why so few that rode in that era have come out to absolutely deny any doping now that all the dirt is out - surely more riders who finished near the back that would have had better careers would be more vocal about it?

 

Not too many I would say, the pro peleton at that level is too small.

 

However I agree, if there were enormous numbers of clean riders in the day it was up to them to call BS on the dopers and report them, if there were sufficient numbers they could feel secure in doing so, but as far as I know that never happened which leads me to believe they were an infintismal minority, if any.

[TNT1]

they were an infintismal minority, if any.

 

None, zero.

 

Rather than waste time on the vanishing twin's book, you lot should read Fignon's book.

 

Shame and the Frenchies blame doping and them being clean for not winning the Tour. Slow on the uptake maybe, clean? Hell no!

Edited January 6, 2013 by TNT1

[HappyMartin]

 

 

None, zero.

 

Rather than waste time on the vanishing twin's book, you lot should read Fignon's book.

 

Shame and the Frenchies blame doping and them being clean for not winning the Tour. Slow on the uptake maybe, clean? Hell no!

 

A good book that. Another good book and really goes back to the beginning of the exposé on doping is Simpsons book. I think it is called "Riding is my life". Turned out he was right. It is available from Amazon for the kindle.

 

Sorry but cannot agree on the zero figure for clean riders. There are documented cases of riders pulling out of a career in cycling because they refused to dope and if we know of those there must have been others. Anyway my point is I refuse to accept the excuse that it was OK to dope because everyone else was doing it. I agree that the clean riders should have spoken up. They have to accept some responsibility. But then again speaking up resulted in expensive lawsuits from pleasant Mr Armstrong and insults from people like brave Mr Landis. Not easy for a 22 year old to buck such a strong entrenched system.

[Jaco-fiets]

None, zero.

 

Rather than waste time on the vanishing twin's book, you lot should read Fignon's book.

 

Shame and the Frenchies blame doping and them being clean for not winning the Tour. Slow on the uptake maybe, clean? Hell no!

 

Name of his book?

[TNT1]

Name of his book?

 

We were young and carefree.

[Jaco-fiets]

A good book that. Another good book and really goes back to the beginning of the exposé on doping is Simpsons book. I think it is called "Riding is my life". Turned out he was right. It is available from Amazon for the kindle.

 

Sorry but cannot agree on the zero figure for clean riders. There are documented cases of riders pulling out of a career in cycling because they refused to dope and if we know of those there must have been others. Anyway my point is I refuse to accept the excuse that it was OK to dope because everyone else was doing it. I agree that the clean riders should have spoken up. They have to accept some responsibility. But then again speaking up resulted in expensive lawsuits from pleasant Mr Armstrong and insults from people like brave Mr Landis. Not easy for a 22 year old to buck such a strong entrenched system.

 

Isn't it "put me back on my bike"?

[Tumbleweed]

Isn't it "put me back on my bike"?

 

Cycling is My Life is Simpson's autobiography, published a year before he died. Put Me Back on the Bike was written years later by William Fotheringham.

[Guest Omega Man]

What % do you think were clean? I was wondering why so few that rode in that era have come out to absolutely deny any doping now that all the dirt is out - surely more riders who finished near the back that would have had better careers would be more vocal about it?

M. Good point. I think during the 90's certainly the whole pro peleton doped. Maybe not all the time. Maybe not as systematically and as organised as LA did but I think they all did. And I think quite a lot of them still are to some degree or another.

[fandacious]

Funny

 

Im sure guys like nike, oakley dread a confession. He will spin money off this and most of that money will come from the people that flame him. Look at the length of this thread.......................

 

Intersting point... what impact would a confession have on his ex sponsors?

[Delgado]

The admission will no doubt be one so that he can get on with things. I'm certain that even if he admits to doping that in reality he never acrually did do so.....this will no doubt make all the disciples jolly happy!!