Vo2 Max testing- where & how much?

[SwissVan]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

I changed to EASY and HARD training at the beginning of August, after having a consultation with an INSCYD partner. I am enjoying my workouts more, and find I'm not as fatigued as I would be after doing the "old style" training. As you have said, it's early days (me included), and I hope to learn a lot from this partner. Having a level 1 coaching certificate allowed me that opportunity (to join them, as an apprentice).

Good luck with your athletes.

I like the polar method (polar hrm’s that is), KISS principal 

your fitness / training results are either:

- Over exerting

- Productive

- Maintaining 

- Undertrained 

 

[bleedToWin]

2 hours ago, ouzo said:

I realise it probably cant be explained in detail in 1 or 2 posts, but do you care to give a brief explanation of how this Easy and Hard training works ?

If you go hard on the bike it better be in an interval where you are doing multiple repeats in the same session close to your max ability for the length of interval. Only do this twice a week.
No need for power meter here, you know how hard you can go for that ~4 min climb. Now do it 6 times or until the wheels come off.

Not doing intervals today? Then do absolutely no intensity at all. No town-sign sprints, no keeping up with mates when they do random accelerations on the coffee group ride, no protecting your average speed on rolling hills by "slightly" pushing it on the hills. Nothing.
If you are wondering if you're going easy enough on a hill then the answer is no. Zone 2 (out of 7), or zone 1 (out of 3) is terribly slow on hills.
That said, you should keep the pressure on the pedals the whole bloody ride. There is no place for free-wheeling or soft pedalling in training rides. You'd be surprised how fast flatland riding is when you maintain constant but easy pressure on the pedals.
No need for power meter, but it removes a lot of guesswork.

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, bleedToWin said:

If you go hard on the bike it better be in an interval where you are doing multiple repeats in the same session close to your max ability for the length of interval. Only do this twice a week.
No need for power meter here, you know how hard you can go for that ~4 min climb. Now do it 6 times or until the wheels come off.

Not doing intervals today? Then do absolutely no intensity at all. No town-sign sprints, no keeping up with mates when they do random accelerations on the coffee group ride, no protecting your average speed on rolling hills by "slightly" pushing it on the hills. Nothing.
If you are wondering if you're going easy enough on a hill then the answer is no. Zone 2 (out of 7), or zone 1 (out of 3) is terribly slow on hills.
That said, you should keep the pressure on the pedals the whole bloody ride. There is no place for free-wheeling or soft pedalling in training rides. You'd be surprised how fast flatland riding is when you maintain constant but easy pressure on the pedals.
No need for power meter, but it removes a lot of guesswork.

I found myself drifting into Z2 (3-zone model) too easily, especially after intersections and some steeper climbs. Drags are easy to manage, but the steeper stuff requires concentrating on the numbers, which is why I have my head unit setup with the zone as a metric. I now avoid the steep stuff on my easy rides.

My head unit zones:

Z1: 1 - 80% of FTP
Z2: 80% of FTP to 100% of FTP
Z3: 100% of FTP - my 6m max effort
Z4: 6m max effort up to 200% of FTP
Z5: 200% of FTP - 2000W

[Emazing]

I’ll find a similar thing my Garmin on an normal ride the unit tells me I need 70 hours of rest and then on a hard ride it can say 48 hours and sometimes on a long ride it says four days. I had the same thing with my old Garmin and now my new one. Personally I don’t think Garmin have it all sorted out. 

[Frosty]

My Garmin showed 3 hours recovery after this

It's just a number on a screen that doesn't mean much to me.

[Job]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:33 PM, Sid the Sloth said:

I don’t experience the same thing. What it could be is your hr becoming less depressed from fatigue so it is more responsive and thus higher at given watts. Idk though I’m no sports scientist. 

This is with consistent training of 5 days a week. I do have asthma though, not sure if it has an effect on my Vo2max reading.

[rudi-h]

On 8/25/2021 at 6:20 PM, Jewbacca said:

What is your V02 Max as per Garmin?

I've been trying to figure out who the Garmin algorithms are aimed at. 

I do a brutal 15km trail run with 1000m of elevation and go hard, broken at the end. Get a 150 score and told I need 12 hours recovery. I do a 55km pre work morning ride, go nowhere near as hard, get a 300 plus score and get told I need 79 hours to recover.

The recovery times are also ridiculous and every time I do more work and play less and my 7 day score drops below 1000 I'm suddenly 'Peaking'..... 

My V02 Max has been the same since forever. 

I would love to actually follow the prompts and suggestions they throw out and see what happens to my fitness. I just feel I will need to find a new hobby while I spend 6 days recovering from a Saturday Morning hundy

The company that does Garmin's physiology analytics is called Firstbeat.  They publish the basis of the algorithms and the physiological parameters that they use to determine these on the website below.  It's a great read

https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/white-papers-and-publications/

I find that even though the Garmin data might be off initially, it does "learn" how to interpret your body signals after some time to the point where it becomes really useful and accurate.  It helps if you wear a Garmin with a PulseOx sensor 24/7 for some time and use a HR belt for exercise.  I'd be surprised if it gets your recovery so blatantly wrong in the long run.

Edited September 16, 2021 by rudi-h

[MudLark]

It's taken me about 2 years to get into the purple zone. Changing diet and various other factors also helped. I've consistently used a power meter and HRM throughput.