MTB's out of China

[Azonic]

Did you buy off a website? Do you have any details? Looking for a 29er..

 

Forged a relationship with a supplier on Alibaba(.com), and I deal with them.

 

http://jiyan.en.alibaba.com/

 

Speak to Judy. Its obviously not her real name, but they use Western names to make the buyer feel more comfortable. Either way. The mission is always to find someone that can speak and understand English well. She does.

[Azonic]

How sexy is this UD Marble weave....? Again, why do you need to slap a sticker onto a bike...? Branded bikes is exactly what the word says, BRANDED, STICKERED. 99% of all carbon frames come out of the same district in China. I find it difficult to say that manufacturers hate me for saying that... because they didn't manufacure anything. The most they did was go for a factory tour and shook hands with a 5 foot tall Chinaman. They hype up the "brand" with perceived value and whiz-bang-BS and try to get it into your mind that their "brand" is the shiznit and you need to buy it. Use your brain.

 

Edited October 29, 2012 by Azonic

[babse]

Why would you want to slap a sticker onto a work of art like this? Brand slut much?

 

nice1 azonic... i have the same frame that i brought in myself!

[Azonic]

nice1 azonic... i have the same frame that i brought in myself!

 

Rocking dude.

[Hairy]

Rocking dude.

yo ... where are the full bike pics already!

[sometime]

How sexy is this UD Marble weave....? Again, why do you need to slap a sticker onto a bike...? Branded bikes is exactly what the word says, BRANDED, STICKERED. 99% of all carbon frames come out of the same district in China. I find it difficult to say that manufacturers hate me for saying that... because they didn't manufacure anything. The most they did was go for a factory tour and shook hands with a 5 foot tall Chinaman. They hype up the "brand" with perceived value and whiz-bang-BS and try to get it into your mind that their "brand" is the shiznit and you need to buy it. Use your brain.

 

 

 

You love banging your drum on this one don't you? We get it ok - we're all stupid for buying branded bikes and you're the man for being able to recognise a well made, well designed frame from a low res photo on the internet.

 

Saying the frame must be good because 99% of all carbon fibre frames come out of the same district in China is like saying KFC on Corlett Drive is as good a restaurant as Orient in Melrose Arch because it's in the same district.

 

Fact is that there are some shockingly bad frames being made in China that are a waste of money and could cause you real injury when/if they fail. There are also some good frames being made that do represent a real saving if all you're after is getting a frame as cheaply as possible and real world after sales service and support is not a priority for you. But how do you know what is and isn't a good frame?

 

As always: Caveat Emptor

[Brian Fantana]

You love banging your drum on this one don't you? We get it ok - we're all stupid for buying branded bikes and you're the man for being able to recognise a well made, well designed frame from a low res photo on the internet.

 

Saying the frame must be good because 99% of all carbon fibre frames come out of the same district in China is like saying KFC on Corlett Drive is as good a restaurant as Orient in Melrose Arch because it's in the same district.

 

Fact is that there are some shockingly bad frames being made in China that are a waste of money and could cause you real injury when/if they fail. There are also some good frames being made that do represent a real saving if all you're after is getting a frame as cheaply as possible and real world after sales service and support is not a priority for you. But how do you know what is and isn't a good frame?

 

As always: Caveat Emptor

 

[Azonic]

But how do you know what is and isn't a good frame?

 

I know because its held up to everything I've been able to throw at it.

 

Regarding comeback service, the people I do business with do offer that, but whether its for a year only or for life. How many times do you plan on breaking any given frame? Maybe once in its life, if that much? I paid R4100 for my frame, for that price I can afford to replace it 3 times and still have R1000 to spare, if compared to "stickered" frames. Regarding quality, you really think I didn't spend a long time reading MTBR Forums, comparing the different builds available etc? Between myself and a mate, we compared tube lengths and angles to all the common local bike makes, Scott, Momsen, Cannondale, Merida etc, and found the one with angles that matched our current bikes. So no, this purchase wasn't just made by looking at a 300dpi photo on a Chinese website.

 

Yup, I'm banging my drum real hard.

[Brian Fantana]

I know because its held up to everything I've been able to throw at it.

 

Regarding comeback service, the people I do business with do offer that, but whether its for a year only or for life. How many times do you plan on breaking any given frame? Maybe once in its life, if that much? I paid R4100 for my frame, for that price I can afford to replace it 3 times and still have R1000 to spare, if compared to "stickered" frames. Regarding quality, you really think I didn't spend a long time reading MTBR Forums, comparing the different builds available etc? Between myself and a mate, we compared tube lengths and angles to all the common local bike makes, Scott, Momsen, Cannondale, Merida etc, and found the one with angles that matched our current bikes. So no, this purchase wasn't just made by looking at a 300dpi photo on a Chinese website.

 

Yup, I'm banging my drum real hard.

 

I understand that you like your unbranded frames, and that you have done your research. That is cool.

 

What I don't understand is why you have to justify your purchases by dissing other brands and calling them "stickered". While these brands are more expensive than your unbranded frame, you need to remember that they have massive R&D departments and very good quality management systems such as ISO 9001. The big brands also have factory racing teams which gives massive input for the R&D department. I cannot help but wonder how the geometry of your frame was determined, it was most probably copied from a big brand.

 

So next time you see someone on a "stickered" (it is actually decals BTW) frame don't think: "Sucker, you paid R8000 for decals." Rather thank him, because he helped to pay for the R&D that went into your bike, since your frame is just a copy

[Lord Catapult]

It's actually the same as in the clothing industry, all the R&D is done by the big branded companies.

These designs are then sent to the manufacturers in China because it is a lot cheaper to produce there.

These blank frames are then just painted and branded and sold onto us at a premium.

 

"Hand built in Germany" should actually be "Built in China, packaged in Germany and assembled by your local bikeshop"

[Azonic]

I understand that you like your unbranded frames, and that you have done your research. That is cool.

 

So next time you see someone on a "stickered" (it is actually decals BTW) frame don't think: "Sucker, you paid R8000 for decals." Rather thank him, because he helped to pay for the R&D that went into your bike, since your frame is just a copy

 

I use the work stickered to be disrespectful on purpose, thanks. I know what decals are.

 

Funny how people would for instance see a Volcan as a quality product.... but diss blank Chinese frames. Notice how similar they are? Guess what.

 

http://www.volcanbikes.com/images/bikes/2012_29er/2012_29er_2.jpg

 

"The sad thing is these days as technology has plateaued more often than not the tools and new production processes are not really adding any value. New gimmicks are developed mainly for marketing purposes. Distinguishing the brand from competition is the only reason for coming up with the new three or four letter acronyms."

 

http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/

 

Either way, I have no need to justify my purchase further. I'm loving my bike, it works and was a steal.

[Kranswurm]

I use the work stickered to be disrespectful on purpose, thanks. I know what decals are.

 

Funny how people would for instance see a Volcan as a quality product.... but diss blank Chinese frames. Notice how similar they are? Guess what.

 

http://www.volcanbikes.com/images/bikes/2012_29er/2012_29er_2.jpg

 

"The sad thing is these days as technology has plateaued more often than not the tools and new production processes are not really adding any value. New gimmicks are developed mainly for marketing purposes. Distinguishing the brand from competition is the only reason for coming up with the new three or four letter acronyms."

 

http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/

 

Either way, I have no need to justify my purchase further. I'm loving my bike, it works and was a steal.

 

Same

[sometime]

I use the work stickered to be disrespectful on purpose, thanks. I know what decals are.

 

Funny how people would for instance see a Volcan as a quality product.... but diss blank Chinese frames. Notice how similar they are? Guess what.

 

Either way, I have no need to justify my purchase further. I'm loving my bike, it works and was a steal.

 

Volcan as you know is a Chinese blank frame marketed in South Africa only. FYI I don't regard it as a quality product. My mate crashed his Volcan 29er HT racing in Knysna earlier this year. The downtube snapped in half. At the risk of stating the obvious he did not replace it with another Volcan. Even though he really liked that bike he likes having his own teeth more.

[RABUBI]

Ride my 26" china frame everyday.

 

3 years and still going strong!

[sometime]

I know because its held up to everything I've been able to throw at it.

 

Regarding comeback service, the people I do business with do offer that, but whether its for a year only or for life. How many times do you plan on breaking any given frame? Maybe once in its life, if that much? I paid R4100 for my frame, for that price I can afford to replace it 3 times and still have R1000 to spare, if compared to "stickered" frames. Regarding quality, you really think I didn't spend a long time reading MTBR Forums, comparing the different builds available etc? Between myself and a mate, we compared tube lengths and angles to all the common local bike makes, Scott, Momsen, Cannondale, Merida etc, and found the one with angles that matched our current bikes. So no, this purchase wasn't just made by looking at a 300dpi photo on a Chinese website.

 

Yup, I'm banging my drum real hard.

 

You take the opinions of luddites on MTBR as the basis for determining the quality of a Chinese blank frame - seriously? Have you ever heard of post purchase rationalisation? That's pretty much sums up about 95% of what you read on MTBR.

 

Like I said enjoy your choice of bike and the R3400 you saved instead of buying a Giant XTC Composite frame with a lifetime warranty and a proper racing R&D and racing pedigree for R7500. But please stop insulting those of us who make different choices to you - we're not wrong and you're not right either.

[Bos]

I think that whole circle (China - Europe - SA )you pay a lot in freight and about 3 people needs to take a cut before you pay the guy at the LBS. Being a product designer myself but of course you all know that the manufacturer makes by far the least money per product. Which is also why they will try find shortcuts to make a few more cents. He might mark his product up 100%, the big brand puts on 100% the distributor puts on another 100% and the poor bikeshop in SA gets to put on 30-50% mark up before you end up paying. My pont here is that the factory selling frames can put a much bigger chunk of cash on top of those raw frames. But that is still bargains so we buy them!

 

However I have had plenty of products made in the east and am all to aware that those chinese buggers do take chances wherever they can find them! So Its a risk you take. As we all know there are different grades of carbon and some require different layup. Im sure they cut corners and make a bit more cash by putting different grades of Carbon in there. (not always visibly for the naked eye)

 

Having said that, would our sport be where it is today without the companies charging a premium because built into that price is advertising, sponsoring factory teams etc etc. If you could live with that, then why not!?

 

But this is going way deep.. and like Azonic said, he is got one, he's happy, it works!