Apprentice Mechanics Wanted

[SwissVan]

Free training brings out all sorts of mamparras out of the woodwork. Chancers, drifters, uncertain, bored....you name it. There's nothing that promotes honestly like putting in your own cash. Lik e I said, the employers will return the fee upon passing and qualifying etc. But I'm not interested in training a bunch of uncommitted people.

 

How much of a stipend? That is the wrong question hence my reluctance to reveal it. As soon as a candidate opens with that question, his motives are in the wrong place.

 

Hi Johan

I understand where you are coming from, and not wanting to waste time filtering out the mamparras. Perhaps I’m thinking too much along the lines of a real apprenticeship and expecting this to apply in the cycling industry. How long is the apprenticeship and is it a real appyship or a golden opportunity?

 

Revealing the “stipend” is not necessarily a foolish thing or the wrong question to ask, and depending on how much it is will either attract or filter out the mamparras.

 

For some perspective here’s my story and maybe this will help show where my questions came from…ja I know its not what you looking for but consider it a free bump to your OP.

 

Where i did my appyship, from the initial interview we knew exactly what we were going to earn for the duration (minimum of 2.5 years) and what we would get when we qualified. The pay was low and pretty effective in sorting out the mamparras as after the initial interview they never showed any further interest. Basically after qualifying (after a minimum of 2.5 yrs) our qualified pay was still less than what a Std 10 school leaver could get as his first salary if he went to work at a bank. We then worked a 3 month probation before any contract was signed for said apprenticeship. This gave the workshop boss / owner time to figure if you were serious or a smartass mamparra and also gave the appy time to see what he was in for. After signing the contract training was “on the job” and 3 months at technical college for every year of appyship, this was free provided you passed, if you failed the company deducted the costs from your salary and you then had to redo them in your own time and own cost. If you decided not to redo you simply stayed at the same level earning until you did pass the exams.

 

Our workshop boss /owner was a real old school minded guy, he had a manner of getting the mamparras to leave on their own free will before the end of 3 months’ probation and still score 3 months labor for peanuts.

 

But as you said you don’t (quite understandbly) want to go through that whole process.

[Tumbleweed]

There are so many issues with this "apprenticeship" offer, that one simply has to call BS on it. What accreditation will the apprentice receive? What accreditation does the person offering it have? Is there a formal trade test? Is it recognised? By whom? The list goes on...

 

To me, it sounds likes the restaurant runner abuse that usually starts around the festive season. Get naive school-leavers in to work for you a while with the promise of a waiting job for a pittance, then dump then when they served their purpose. Those type of people should have the Labour Act "gooied" at them

Edited November 4, 2012 by Tumbleweed

[Lexx]

+10 on point 8... No body wants to see a guys crack......

 

Only a Plumber has the right to show his "Crack" in Public.

[nickelass]

I am in the training field(apprienticeships,learnerships,section 28 artisans,private students etc, we do it all)nothing irritates me more that a half committed student/learner,often parents come to me and spent a wad of their hard earned cash trying to help their kids,who dont seem to realise how fortunate they are,fact is there a few appeships around,and most people pay for training.If I was really interested in being a bike mackie I would jump at the chance.

[Dirtbreath]

There are so many issues with this "apprenticeship" offer, that one simply has to call BS on it. What accreditation will the apprentice receive? What accreditation does the person offering it have? Is there a formal trade test? Is it recognised? By whom? The list goes on...

 

To me, it sounds likes the restaurant runner abuse that usually starts around the festive season. Get naive school-leavers in to work for you a while with the promise of a waiting job for a pittance, then dump then when they served their purpose. Those type of people should have the Labour Act "gooied" at them

 

I disagree with you.

 

There is no accreditation in the cycling industry that I know of. Most other technical trades have fallen away too or are difficult to get into.

 

I would use your restaurant analogy more as a trainee chef working in a reputable restaurant kitchen.

 

What other opportunities do you know of to try get into the mechanical side of cycling. Retail environment doesnt offer this I am afraid.

[Danger Dassie]

I disagree with you.

 

There is no accreditation in the cycling industry that I know of. Most other technical trades have fallen away too or are difficult to get into.

 

I would use your restaurant analogy more as a trainee chef working in a reputable restaurant kitchen.

 

What other opportunities do you know of to try get into the mechanical side of cycling. Retail environment doesnt offer this I am afraid.

 

The UK, US and Europe it has become very much a formalised trade with accredited courses.

Unfortunately not everyone can afford to go stateside and do a Barnetts course or do a years worth of accredited training in the UK.

Even more doubtful that they can recoup that investment by coming back here and plying their trade, more the exception than the rule.

There are industry certified courses that retailers can put their staff through via the importers/brands.

 

Yet the reality is that a career as a bike shop mechanic in SA, is still very much unrecognised and underpaid trade for most. Where the traditional 'appy' role doesn't really apply as it did with those of us that did apprenticeships in other industry.

 

Some good questions have been put to JB about this offer, which rather being critical can be used constructively.

Speaking for myself though. I can see in the bigger scheme of things this is a good opportunity not just for the applicants but the local industry to step up as well and provide a good formal base for some kind basic technical proficiency in the workshop at least.

[Simon Kolin]

Oy Vey,

 

With respect Johan, a public posting by yourself does by its nature allow anyone to enquire about the particulars therein, myself included. As such I have asked politely for you to clarify various points.

 

My “beef”, since you rhetorically asked (yes I recognise the irony), is this. I have issue in the way you have (IMHO) misled and thinly disguised your attempt to procure income for yourself under the guise of “Apprenticeship”.

 

Now before I am accused of slander, trolling or being a saboteur of skills development, let me explain.

 

It seems highly irregular that you as a person offering training courses in bicycle mechanics is acting as recruitment agent for “a commissioning bike shop in Johannesburg”. Surely if you are not offering the apprenticeship, this advertorial should have been placed by the employer? How you are involved at all is irrelevant, unless the employer felt the need to qualify that the course you offer is of a recognised standard that would be attractive.

Perhaps an example would help.

 

“Hi all Hubbers,

 

My name is Blah and I own Blah Bicycle Shop in Johannesburg. We have been in operation since Blah and have a proud history of service excellence, competitive pricing and unmatched technical bicycle knowledge. This year we were nominated by Blah Magazine as South Africa’s No1 bicycle retailer.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to invite all aspiring bicycle mechanics to apply for the 2 apprenticeship positions we have created in our business. This apprenticeship will run for 6 months, commencing on January 1^st 2013 in Johannesburg and the ideal candidates should meet the following;

 

1. Have a Grade 12 with English as a first language. A diploma from a Technical College is also acceptable.

2. Have a passion for bicycle maintenance and repair.

3. Understand that qualification for apprenticeship is subject to an initial 2 month training period held by Johan Borman at Yellow Saddle Cycles. This training is world class and is Blah category 5 accredited. We are proud to be associated with Johan who has a 100% pass rate.

4. Understand that the above-mentioned training is subject to a fee of Rxxxx which will be paid by yourself. Should you pass the course, we will fully refund you this fee on acceptance of your apprenticeship position.

5. Understand that as apprentice you will work Monday through Friday (9-4) and every alternate Saturday.

6. Understand that as apprentice you will be working for a minimum wage of Rxxx for the 6-month period.

7. Blah, blah, blah….

 

If you feel that you meet these requirements and would blah, blah, blah, please send a copy of your CV and motivational letter to me at blah@blah.co.za

 

I look forward to hearing from you, soon.

 

Sincerely,

 

Blah.”

 

You see Johan, with the example above there has been no confusion created about the invitation and expectations by the employer. Candidate selection has been assigned to the appropriate person. Your involvement has been put in a positive light.

 

Please understand that I applaud and champion any skills development or transfer of knowledge within the local bicycle industry. I believe that all bicycle retailers could befit from higher skilled client service. Empowered and skilled staff are critical, however I respectfully reject your sentiments that you are somehow doing the local industry a huge favour by metering out arbitrary criteria and vague hope of employment to the work seeking public (and their parents) to join your “apprenticeship”.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Simon Kolin

[Tumbleweed]

Well articulated post, Simon. Another point of concern. This advert is in contravention of labour law. There is a distinct difference between being a trainee and an apprentice, The OP's offer tries to bridge the two. Choose one. Also, the lack of disclosure weighs against any applicant. Approach with caution.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Tumbleweed

[Tumbleweed]

I disagree with you.

 

There is no accreditation in the cycling industry that I know of. Most other technical trades have fallen away too or are difficult to get into.

 

I would use your restaurant analogy more as a trainee chef working in a reputable restaurant kitchen.

 

What other opportunities do you know of to try get into the mechanical side of cycling. Retail environment doesnt offer this I am afraid.

 

There is a difference between being allowed to wear gingham and black pants.

[Trance Dance]

Also, how does one legally discriminate against job seekers who are smokers?

[David Marshall]

There is no regulated training or qualification for Bicycle Mechanics in SA. Also there is no incentive for anyone, including Johan, to register courses, train assessors and go the whole seta route. I don't think that the retail bike industry working together could pull it off. Even the Department of Labour does not rate bike mecs very highly. In the proposal for the Occupational Qualifications Framework they are listed on the lowest level.

 

3. Skill level 1 occupations

· will be certificates not awards

· skills requiring little theory and primarily taught on-the-job

Example: Stable hand, fast-food cook, shelf filler, porter,

bicycle mechanic

 

Leaves the potential bike mec with three options - go overseas, learn on the job (on our bikes from a mec with no qualifications) in a retail store or try something like what Johan is offering. As for Simon Kolin's comment - ''

 

My “beef”, since you rhetorically asked (yes I recognise the irony), is this. I have issue in the way you have (IMHO) misled and thinly disguised your attempt to procure income for yourself under the guise of “Apprenticeship”."

 

IMHO you have not thought this through. Johan's unrecognised and uncertified courses are oversubscribed (just follow the threads) so how is duping two extra candidates going to make him rich? Cheap shot.

 

What I read from the OP is that there is an opportunity available for a keen person to get an intro into a career with possibilities, not guarantees, by training in a top class workshop under a respected mechanic. The fact that the mechanic can be an arrogant, opinionated perfectionist just means it won't be plain sailing! Take it or leave it.

[pista]

I wish i had a opportunity like this 20 years ago.

 

I don't see the problem with the OP's post.

 

You do his course and then are guaranteed to get work in the cycling industry,which is pretty hard to get in to.You could go to varsity and sit for years without work after paying a fortune in fees.Here your fees will be refunded.

[Simon Kolin]

Hi Chowder,

 

With respect, but your post that Johan has no financial motivation for his advertorial, because his courses are “oversubscribed” is obviously a rough and optimistic guess, based on shallow familiarity (thread count). It has no merit.

 

More importantly, you call Johan’s courses “Unrecognised and Uncertified”. In that spirit I ask, why then would anyone want to pay for his tuition or believe that any employer would refund that fee?

 

Finally, I reject your “fact” that we should take the advertorial on face value because you regard Johan as an “arrogant/opinionated perfectionist”.

 

Cheap Shot? Think, Sure Shot…

Edited November 4, 2012 by Simon Kolin

[Bianchi]

I wish i had a opportunity like this 20 years ago.

 

I don't see the problem with the OP's post.

 

You do his course and then are guaranteed to get work in the cycling industry,which is pretty hard to get in to.You could go to varsity and sit for years without work after paying a fortune in fees.Here your fees will be refunded.

 

When I finished matric I had the opportunity to work as a mechanic (and also salesperson) in a very good bicycle shop. I gained first hand experience in building and servicing bicycles, and doing everything else around the store too. Pay started really crappy but after a while got decent pay, let's say in relation to the quality of my work. Unfortunately with the start of my studies I had to resign the position but up to now I still appreciate what I learnt.

It might be, speaking in terms of the Dept of Labour, a low-end job, but it's certainly a job that can push you to high levels, even as a mechanic for teams overseas.

[Swift01]

Wow can't believe some of these questions etc. in todays's world a trade a a special skill. Being patient and learning how to be a top grade mechanic does not just come from reading a text book but more importantly from experience. That is something that seems to be coming short these days. Getting a young person to learn patience and responsibility at a young age is tough. Their mind is full of all sorts of things i know my nephew is 16 and i try to show him how to fix his bike but he is more interested in just riding it but fails in raves due to mechanical problems. We were all like that when young. What JB is offering is the best of both worlds. You get to learn via the text book through his courses, but also your going to learn from the bottom up in the real world of working with bikes. Paying for the courses and getting refunded is a way to make one stay focused. If only i was given this chance 10yrs ago. Only when your older do you appreciate it. In SA we are crying, shouting for better bike mechanics but when someone tries to help sort the situation we kick him down. Just looks how many posts there are about Xxx LBS broke my bike, did a bad job etc. Lets embrace what he and his bike shop sponsors are trying do and give them a chance...... You never know we could create a great mechanic at your local LBS. Is that not what we all want? It's worth at least one round of trying. Ok so thats my R50 worth.........:-)

[Smiles]

Hi Chowder,

 

With respect, but your post that Johan has no financial motivation for his advertorial, because his courses are “oversubscribed” is obviously a rough and optimistic guess, based on shallow familiarity (thread count). It has no merit.

 

More importantly, you call Johan’s courses “Unrecognised and Uncertified”. In that spirit I ask, why then would anyone want to pay for his tuition or believe that any employer would refund that fee?

 

Finally, I reject your “fact” that we should take the advertorial on face value because you regard Johan as an “arrogant/opinionated perfectionist”.

 

Cheap Shot? Think, Sure Shot…

O FFS people stop trolling these threads because you have nothing better to do. I will half forgive you Simon (only 11 posts) that you obviously do not know that Johan must be one of the best mechanics in the country. There are lots of school leavers who cannot get a job - and this is an amazing opportunity to up-skill some of those people. I am sure that the candidates can contact Johan, and if they feel they are not getting enough from the offer, they do not have to accept. Can we stop this stupid arguing, and leave this thread open rather for potential candidates to see the opportunity - let them decide if the deal is fair.