LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[davetapson]

NNNNOOOOOOOOO, I friggin love my cauli mash.

 

Regards

 

There's always an exception to the rule!!

[Dealz]

You mean, someone that thinks the same as you, who disregards the negative aspects of a ketogenic or VLC diet and just highlights the possible positive short term effects (which I don't deny there is btw) ?

This seems a bit close minded imo, as a doctor's responsibility would be to objectively evaluate your health and long term consequences of any intervention or treatment. If your health suddenly declines after a year or 2 or 3, are you going to search for another doctor again ?

 

One of the consequences of a chronic VLC or ketogenic diet is elevated adrenaline and/or cortisol levels (together with lower testosterone and T3 hormone levels ) . Go do a bit research of the effects of long term elevated cortisol levels on health. If you suddenly start breaking bones for no reason, you will know what diet to blame. Also a lot of that calsium that leaks out of your bones get to be deposited in your other body cells like heart muscle, leading to ultimate cell death. But hey, at least you will be able to say you lost a lot of weight ! That's positive !

According to which study do you get elevated adrenaline and/or cortisol levels (together with lower testosterone and T3 hormone levels ) ? Please provide

[DaleE]

I really would prefer to see a doctor that supports the LCHF, or Paleo way of living to do the check up. Has anyone got a name or two for a doctor in Johannesburg or Sandton area for me?

 

I don't have a name in JHB for you. I can give you the details for my doc (cardiologist) here in CT who understands LCHF/Paleo ... perhaps he can refer you to someone in JHB?

PM me if you want his details.

[Topwine]

Don't worry, most of us just ignore him.

 

He is even mentioned in this topic's first post

 

I still wait for the day that you actually contributes something intelligent, rather than try your best to do adhominem attacks . This thread IS about LCHF, the good and the bad ... You should try to up your blood glucose a little... it is known to improve cognitive dissonance

 

BTW, on gout/ high uric acid (which you developed for the first time on a LC diet, at the age of 25 )

 

A ketogenic diet impairs the ability of the kidney to excrete uric acid, due to competition for transport between uric acid and ketones.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperuricemia

[Topwine]

According to which study do you get elevated adrenaline and/or cortisol levels (together with lower testosterone and T3 hormone levels ) ? Please provide

 

Did you even try researching for yourself, Google and Pubmed are good starting places ...

 

start here, for a quick first few, it will get late once you finish searching and reading them all,

http://anthonycolpo.com/why-low-carb-diets-are-inferior-for-strength-muscle-gains/

 

http://chriskresser.com/intermittent-fasting-cortisol-and-blood-sugar

I’ve seen this time and time again with my patients. Almost all of my patients have blood sugar imbalances. And it’s usually not as simple as “high blood sugar” or “low blood sugar”. They often have a combination of both (reactive hypoglycemia), or strange blood sugar patterns that, on the surface, don’t make much sense. These folks aren’t eating a Standard American Diet. Most of them are already on a paleo-type or low-carb diet. Yet they still have blood sugar issues.

In these cases, cortisol dysregulation is almost always the culprit.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12654976

Elevated beta-hydroxybutyrate and cortisol levels were observed in all children on the KD.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3573976?dopt=Abstract

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17785367

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564212/

Cortisol excretion measured with a 24-hour urine collection (LF: 50 [41 to 60] μg/d; LGI: 60 [49 to 73] μg/d; VLC: 71 [58 to 86] μg/d; P=0.005) Thats nearly 50% higher cortisol !

[P.A.K.]

I still wait for the day that you actually contributes something intelligent, rather than try your best to do adhominem attacks . This thread IS about LCHF, the good and the bad ... You should try to up your blood glucose a little... it is known to improve cognitive dissonance

 

BTW, on gout/ high uric acid (which you developed for the first time on a LC diet, at the age of 25 )

 

A ketogenic diet impairs the ability of the kidney to excrete uric acid, due to competition for transport between uric acid and ketones.

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/Hyperuricemia

By the way fellow LCHF forumites, I'm glad to announce that my 'gout attack' last week was actually NOT gout but some kind of infection. The doctor confirmed

[Mikesa9]

I don't have a name in JHB for you. I can give you the details for my doc (cardiologist) here in CT who understands LCHF/Paleo ... perhaps he can refer you to someone in JHB?

PM me if you want his details.

Thanks Dale. I have sent a PM.

[Roux 1]

Good day

 

I did a blood test yesterday and I would like some input regarding Hemoglobin, Red blood cell, Iron and Transferrin values. Reason for blood tests was for check up and suspected urinary/bladder infection.

 

All of the above is below pathologist (Ampath) range?? The hematocrit also, but as I understand it active fit people's values can be lower.

 

Thyroid function is 100% and also white cells count. Very stable BG and Cholesterol of 5,4 which is good with the amount of eggs I eat.

 

Below values : ::: ranges on results.

 

Hb :: 13,9 (14,3-18,3)

RBC 4,56 (4,89-6,11)

Iron 11,6 (11,6-31,3)

Transferrin 2,1 (2.2-3.7)

 

Normocytic Anemia - is mentioned on results. I did some reading up on that also. I'm not 85, not bleeding internally etc etc.

 

I am a bit in the dark. Any comments will be appreciated.

[Topwine]

 

Thyroid function is 100% and also white cells count.

 

How do you know your thyroid function is 100 % ? What did you test for this? What is your body temperature when you wake in the morning ? Your HR when you wake ?

[Cuppa Bru]

How do you know your thyroid function is 100 % ? What did you test for this? What is your body temperature when you wake in the morning ? Your HR when you wake ?

 

Don't be so overdramatic

Just tell us what ranges you think are cause for further investigation.

Body temperature and HR differ for every person, and also go up or down for a variety of reasons, so how does one use this to make a meaningful diagnosis of thyroid malfunction?

 

 

The bulk 25 litre VCO is "Dispatched for delivery" and should arrive before the end of today.

There is one litre left. PM me to reserve.

[Roux 1]

How do you know your thyroid function is 100 % ? What did you test for this? What is your body temperature when you wake in the morning ? Your HR when you wake ?

 

Blood test and MD says Thyroid is 100%. It is in the middle as per pathologists range. Unless a thyroid biopsy would be better? Temp?? feels fine... HR resting wake up::. between 38-43 bpm and Blood pressure 110/70 as of yesterday..

[davetapson]

Good day

 

I did a blood test yesterday and I would like some input regarding Hemoglobin, Red blood cell, Iron and Transferrin values. Reason for blood tests was for check up and suspected urinary/bladder infection.

 

All of the above is below pathologist (Ampath) range?? The hematocrit also, but as I understand it active fit people's values can be lower.

 

Thyroid function is 100% and also white cells count. Very stable BG and Cholesterol of 5,4 which is good with the amount of eggs I eat.

 

Below values : ::: ranges on results.

 

Hb :: 13,9 (14,3-18,3)

RBC 4,56 (4,89-6,11)

Iron 11,6 (11,6-31,3)

Transferrin 2,1 (2.2-3.7)

 

Normocytic Anemia - is mentioned on results. I did some reading up on that also. I'm not 85, not bleeding internally etc etc.

 

I am a bit in the dark. Any comments will be appreciated.

Do you run a lot?

[Topwine]

Blood test and MD says Thyroid is 100%. It is in the middle as per pathologists range. Unless a thyroid biopsy would be better? Temp?? feels fine... HR resting wake up::. between 38-43 bpm and Blood pressure 110/70 as of yesterday..

 

MD normally just test TSH and if that is in range they declare that thyroid function is normal. This is however not correct in many many cases. You have to test the full range of thyroid hormones, like the total T4, free T4, total T3, free T3 , reverse T3, thyroid anti-bodies, and TSH. Even then if your body temp in the morning is below 36.2 and don't get up to 36.8 in late afternoon early evening, you might still have thyroid hormone problems, not necessarily due to your thyroid itself, but also at the cell level or inability to convert T4 to T3 in the liver. Many things to consider. That is why I ask what his heart rate is also. It is way too low imo. It prob means his BMR is very low or far below normal, which could indicate improper metabolism and too little CO2 production and too high lactic acid production which causes hypoxia and possibly anemia.

 

He might also have a kidney problem( he hints at it ) which can be the primary cause of anemia, or a secondary manifestation effect of being in an improper metabolic state. Either way it is very important that he make 100% sure his thyroid hormone homeostasis is working correctly at all levels because if not, that could be the cause of all his problems, and it could become worse with other illnesses as well.

 

Roux, you are not a little bit yellow in colour these days ?

[2wheelsgood]

One of the consequences of a chronic VLC or ketogenic diet is elevated adrenaline and/or cortisol levels (together with lower testosterone and T3 hormone levels )

 

Regarding cortisol levels on keto:

http://www.ketotic.o...ess-part-i.html

In fact, it turns out that the level of blood sugar that has to be reached to significantly increase cortisol is so low that clinical symptoms of hypoglycemia also start to appear at that level

Can you provide other links for your claims about keto and cortisol?

(editL sorry only saw now that you did provide links. reading now)

From search results it appears keto increases testosterone production, not decreases. I don't have time now to read more, but if you have some cites to back-up your assertion please post.

 

Maybe you'd like to share your thoughts on how carb-rich diet affects serotonin (which in turn affects cortisol).

http://ketopia.com/c...nd-carbs-oh-my/

http://archinte.jama...08558(Long-term Effects of a Very Low-Carbohydrate Diet and a Low-Fat Diet on Mood and Cognitive Function)

Conclusions Over 1 year, there was a favorable effect of an energy-restricted LF diet compared with an isocaloric LC diet on mood state and affect in overweight and obese individuals. Both diets had similar effects on working memory and speed of processing.

 

 

tl;dnr: Topwine using bad science to try scare people off low carb (again)

Edited January 16, 2014 by 2wheelsgood

[2wheelsgood]

Did you even try researching for yourself, Google and Pubmed are good starting places ...

 

start here, for a quick first few, it will get late once you finish searching and reading them all,

http://anthonycolpo....h-muscle-gains/

 

For intense sustained physical activity I don't think anyone would dispute carbs are required.

This 'study' of low-carb was using 200g of carb a day. That might be 'relatively' low, but it is nowhere near keto. So presumably all the study subjects were in fact not in ketosis.

I have personally gained strength and added muscle on vlc/keto diet in the last year.

 

http://chriskresser....and-blood-sugar

I’ve seen this time and time again with my patients. Almost all of my patients have blood sugar imbalances. And it’s usually not as simple as “high blood sugar” or “low blood sugar”. They often have a combination of both (reactive hypoglycemia), or strange blood sugar patterns that, on the surface, don’t make much sense. These folks aren’t eating a Standard American Diet. Most of them are already on a paleo-type or low-carb diet. Yet they still have blood sugar issues.

In these cases, cortisol dysregulation is almost always the culprit.

 

He's talking about IF not keto?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12654976

Elevated beta-hydroxybutyrate and cortisol levels were observed in all children on the KD.

 

Seems legit, other than being on kids.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....6?dopt=Abstract

 

28 year old study compares high protein diet with high carb diet, not keto.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17785367

 

Study concludes that dietary macronutrient content alters cortisol metabolism independently of body weight changes in obese men. okay, and?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3564212/

Cortisol excretion measured with a 24-hour urine collection (LF: 50 [41 to 60] μg/d; LGI: 60 [49 to 73] μg/d; VLC: 71 [58 to 86] μg/d; P=0.005) Thats nearly 50% higher cortisol !

 

"Therefore, the study may overestimate the magnitude of effects that could be obtained by carbohydrate restriction in the context of a behavioral intervention"

[cadenceblur]

Hi guys

 

Had my heart first fat shake today. Tasted quite good, only thing is my stomach has been unsettled for the entire day, is this normal?