LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Sniffie]

Hey Lucky Luke! Cool down cowboy. Posting for the first time on a forum and calling the regular participants names like ******* stupid and daft a bit harsh don't you think? Put away that six shooter of yours for a minute and do some proper reading of this thread. You will then see that most, if not all of the cowboys- and girls on this thread started to experiment with reduced carb intake to try and cure some kind of illness or medical problem. If you do take the time to read through the thread you would see that a lot of people have such a high level of carb intolerance that cutting out most carbs was the only solution. If someone's health improves by cutting out something from their diet is daft according to you... then sorry cowboy no one here is going to take you seriously again.

[Lucky Luke.]

I'm not calling anyone stupid and I've been on here a while, just not on this thread. Best of luck to anybody with health issues.

 

I'm challenging the demonising of all carbohydrates - a charge apparently led by Noakes. In my opinion the problem is not the carbs themselves, but how they are packaged, marketed and the quantities in which they are consumed.

 

Cutting out all carbs - if that is really what is being proposed - perhaps that's not the case? - is still daft in my opinion, and also pretty much impossible.

 

Personally my approach is to cut out

 

- processed food & sugar wherever possible

- gluten and wheat as much as possible

- high GI carbs (unless you're doing high intensity exercise)

- lower my intake of grains & pasta

 

Cutting out all carbs is an extremist approach, and perhaps most importantly for the average person, is going to be very hard to maintain and integrate into your day to day eating in the long term.

 

Eating habits that cannot be sustained, in combination with your body's natural homeostatic inclinations, are likely to lead to you ending up back at square 1.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Lucky Luke.

[HappyMartin]

I'm also uncomfortable with the demonizing of all carbs. Having said that my carb intake in very low at the moment as I'm trying to lose weight. When just maintaining I tend to eat a bit more carbs.

 

I think it depends on individuals though. Eating carbs in moderation seems to do me no harm. I am also a bit surprised when people say that being fat adapted has allowed them to do 2 or 3 hour rides at moderate intensity on only water. I regard that as perfectly normal and have always been able to do that even on a high carb diet.

 

On the other side thee sure is something wrong with the way we eat. Sitting at a restaurant on sat morning I looked around and was shocked at the shape of the people. Guzzling cokes and eating piles of toast and flapjack things.

 

Anyway a week on low carb now and I'm feeling good. Forgot to weigh myself this morning but my jeans are feeling a lot more comfortable.

 

 

[davetapson]

Fair enough. What is this 'white rubbish' of which you speak though? I honestly don't know how you would cut out all carbs. What is wrong with whole rolled oats, wheat and sugar free muesli and so forth? That's all I eat pretty much every day for lunch / breakfast and I feel great.

 

There is a fair amount of evidence that eating grains (even if you are not gluten intolerant etc) doesn't do you a whole lot of good. That is not the theme of this thread, but if you google 'wheat belly' you find all that you might want to know in terms of 'what is wrong with...'

 

Mueli etc that is commercially produced tends to have sugar snuck in somewhere / somehow - it's what makes it palatable for the masses. Give them up for a while and then eat them again - you can actually taste it. If you do want to eat grains, then you probably need to find a souce of real 'home-made' muesli or make it yourself.

 

The irony of this all (for me) was that I worked at Discovery for a number of years, In their canteen you could get a solid fryup for about R7. I, however, being fitness minded, used to eat muesli and yoghurt - for R13. When you have a look at the sugar content of commercial muesli (esp granola) and low-fat yogurt, it is HIGH - normally 10% or so. So 10% of this so-called health food is sugar? Actually makes me quite angry that I was doing what 'they' said was the right thing to do and meanwhile I was effectively eating candy for breakfast at twice the price of food.

 

White rubbish? Anything made of white stuff - flour, potato etc. Not cauliflower - it's white but you can eat it...

Bread (all kinds), pasta etc are nutritionally empty foods - they have taken any food value wheat may have had, removed it, and ground up what remains (starch). Why would you actually want to eat it / think that it may have any health value?

 

When you start trying LC, you suddenly find just how carb based our diet is - which is probably why you're having the reaction you are (i.e. "I honestly don't know how you would...").

 

Don't forget that Noakes is not demonising carbs. Noakes says that you should restrict your carbs to a range of 200g per day or less. The amount depends on how carb intolerant you are.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Oh on this issue, Luke - Noakes doesn't demonise carbs. He Demonises carbs for carb resistant folks. And even then, not all carbs either - things like broccoli, cauliflower, butternut, etc etc are still fine, according to the "noakes" diet.

 

He demonises starchy carbs - potato, wheat & flour based foods and so on. But ONLY for those who are carb-resistant.

 

Me - I'm not carb resistant. I don't need to be as picky as others here on this thread. But I've still increased my protein and fat intake while reducing carb intake, and it feels great.

 

I also changed the TYPE of carbs I ingest. Well, try to, at least. But because I'm not intolerant of carbs, it's not that big of a deal. I just go wholewheat on everything, no processed shaite and so on.

 

WHat's good for the goose ISN'T good for the gander. And that's what Noakes is saying. He's not saying it's for everyone. In fact, he drives that point home almost every time he talks about it.

[deanbean]

I'm not demonising carbs either, I couldn't, I love my beer. BUT I've cut down on the number of carbs I eat, and only get my carbs from veg that grow above the ground, and some fruit, as well as from some from milk.

 

Interesting 2 conflicting articles

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/why-nutrition-is-so-confusing.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

and

https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140209153920-23027997-diet-weight-and-health-confused-only-if-you-want-to-be?_mSplash=1

[Lucky Luke.]

There is a fair amount of evidence that eating grains (even if you are not gluten intolerant etc) doesn't do you a whole lot of good. That is not the theme of this thread, but if you google 'wheat belly' you find all that you might want to know in terms of 'what is wrong with...'

 

 

Yes, I'm aware of this - I thought my last post made this clear - I don't eat much grains or wheat.

 

Mueli etc that is commercially produced tends to have sugar snuck in somewhere

 

Yes, I'm aware of this too, which is the reason I put the blame on corporatisation of food, how it's processed, packaged and marketed. I don't eat big brand muesli for exactly these reasons.

 

I did say sugar and wheat free muesli in my previous post.

 

/ somehow - it's what makes it palatable for the masses. Give them up for a while and then eat them again - you can actually taste it. If you do want to eat grains, then you probably need to find a souce of real 'home-made' muesli or make it yourself.

 

The irony of this all (for me) was that I worked at Discovery for a number of years, In their canteen you could get a solid fryup for about R7. I, however, being fitness minded, used to eat muesli and yoghurt - for R13. When you have a look at the sugar content of commercial muesli (esp granola) and low-fat yogurt, it is HIGH - normally 10% or so. So 10% of this so-called health food is sugar? Actually makes me quite angry that I was doing what 'they' said was the right thing to do and meanwhile I was effectively eating candy for breakfast at twice the price of food.

 

White rubbish? Anything made of white stuff - flour, potato etc. Not cauliflower - it's white but you can eat it...

Bread (all kinds), pasta etc are nutritionally empty foods - they have taken any food value wheat may have had, removed it, and ground up what remains (starch). Why would you actually want to eat it / think that it may have any health value?

 

When you start trying LC,

 

 

based on your post, it sounds like I'm already doing it, without having read any books on the subject

 

you suddenly find just how carb based our diet is - which is probably why you're having the reaction you are (i.e. "I honestly don't know how you would...").

 

Don't forget that Noakes is not demonising carbs. Noakes says that you should restrict your carbs to a range of 200g per day or less. The amount depends on how carb intolerant you are.

 

Ok, fair enough

Edited February 10, 2014 by Lucky Luke.

[DaleE]

I'm challenging the demonising of all carbohydrates - a charge apparently led by Noakes. In my opinion the problem is not the carbs themselves, but how they are packaged, marketed and the quantities in which they are consumed.

 

Cutting out all carbs - if that is really what is being proposed - perhaps that's not the case? - is still daft in my opinion, and also pretty much impossible.

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here ... no one is demonising all carbs. It's been repeated enough times ... "not all carbs are bad and not all fats are good" - I forget who coined that phrase but apologies for the plagiarism

 

On Noakes' "green" (always allowed) list and "orange" (in moderation) list are plenty of foods with carbs in them - so to say he is leading the charge or demonising carbs is somewhat unfair (and untrue). What is true is that most of these carbs come from green vegetable sources, not the more commonly consumed oats, corn, grains, etc. There seems to be enough evidence that carbs turn to sugar in the body and are either burned as energy or stored as fat, so, what Noakes' is saying is that for people who are carb intolerant, they need to reduce their carb intake to reduce blood sugar levels and the amount of fat stored.

It's also true that he is demonising the corn based carbs - soya, wheat, canola, etc. That topic is somewhat too involved for a forum post like this. Do some reading - perhaps start with Noakes' book to get an understanding.

 

Now, cutting out all carbs is (as you say) pretty much impossible. That's not the goal of a LCHF approach. The goal is to find the level of carbs at which your body is happy, you can exercise at the level you like, and you can maintain. Each person will differ depending on their metabolism ... anything from 25g/day upwards.

 

Your approach of

"... to cut out

- processed food & sugar wherever possible

- gluten and wheat as much as possible

- high GI carbs (unless you're doing high intensity exercise)

- lower my intake of grains & pasta"

Is somewhat closer to a Paleo than LCHF diet. If it works for you, that's cool. My personal opinion is that Paleo (with some dairy) is the smart approach for non-carb resistant folk. Suggest you go have a look at http://www.marksdailyapple.com for more info.

[davetapson]

OK - Dullstroom MTB was also a crampfest. I still think it's lack of magnesium - and again post race I was getting cramps in the one had I was steering with - if you drove on the Elandskloof road, and you have a Polo Blueline that has lowered suspension for improved fuel economy, you'd know why might get cramps...

 

Volek and co have written about Magnesium supplementation - I need to dig that out.

 

Also find out why magnesium is an issue with LCHF.

[NotSoBigBen]

Hey Dave,

 

I am on a very reduced carb/sugar diet but not at the level of most here and have suddenly started getting cramps at races (interesting not while training), never had that problem before .... even cramped at dinner a week after Barberton

 

I have started taking dolomite after Barberton (about 2.5 weeks or so) but haven't raced yet ..... hoping that will help and will also take Rennies with to the next race as that helped my boet!

 

Cheers

Ben

[HappyMartin]

While living LC I have no intention of racing like that or even doing hard training like that. 20 minutes into a ride the gloves are off and I eat carbs. High GI. As much as I can cram in my face.

[jcza]

While living LC I have no intention of racing like that or even doing hard training like that. 20 minutes into a ride the gloves are off and I eat carbs. High GI. As much as I can cram in my face.

 

Spot on, same here.

[davetapson]

HM / JC - I've taken your advice on the nutrition during races, and chow the carbs with the best of them. I'm full of energy - but still getting cramps. Exactly as Ben says - nothing during training, but races, for sure.

 

Except when I think about it I've had some training rides that my muscles have been a bit twitchy. That's when I start my patchy mag supplementation again. I'm gong to start conciously trying to take a mag with each meal and see if that makes a diffs for Sabie.

 

The Rennies do make a difference - I think it is due to the magnesium content.

Edited February 10, 2014 by davetapson

[NotSoBigBen]

HM / JC - I've taken your advice on the nutrition during races, and chow the carbs with the best of them. I'm full of energy - but still getting cramps. Exactly as Ben says - nothing during training, but races, for sure.

 

Except when I think about it I've had some training rides that my muscles have been a bit twitchy. That's when I start my patchy mag supplementation again. I'm gong to start conciously trying to take a mag with each meal and see if that makes a diffs for Sabie.

 

The Rennies do make a difference - and I think it is due to the magnesium content.

 

Probably going to USN CUP at Modderfontein this Saturday then we'll see

[jcza]

HM / JC - I've taken your advice on the nutrition during races, and chow the carbs with the best of them. I'm full of energy - but still getting cramps. Exactly as Ben says - nothing during training, but races, for sure.

 

Except when I think about it I've had some training rides that my muscles have been a bit twitchy. That's when I start my patchy mag supplementation again. I'm gong to start conciously trying to take a mag with each meal and see if that makes a diffs for Sabie.

 

The Rennies do make a difference - I think it is due to the magnesium content.

 

Dave I'm lucky I don't cramp. I don't take any supplements or anti-cramp stuff. I think you will be a rich man if you find the answer!

[DaleE]

HM / JC - I've taken your advice on the nutrition during races, and chow the carbs with the best of them. I'm full of energy - but still getting cramps. Exactly as Ben says - nothing during training, but races, for sure.

 

Dave,

 

Is it possible that the cramps are training related, not nutrition? If you are still doing the Maf thing of lots of long slow rides, but then switch to high intensity for the races .... perhaps your muscles are simply not accustomed to the higher intensity for that period of time so fatigue sets in and cramp follows.

Another possibility is that you train lots on one bike but race on another. I had this when doing lots of road training last year, then tried racing on MTB. The MTB saddle was just 15mm lower but that was enough to alter the angle of the bent knee and cause cramps. tried about every cure/pill on the market before I finally figured it out!