Your Enduro ride

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

For your Monday woes, I give you a challenge.

 

I am in a predicament: I had 2 "enduro" bikes. One hard tail (HT) and one full sus (FS). Now I only have one (the FS) and after riding the other, it feels like absolute crap.

 

The 3 main issues are:

1. In fast corners - I now seem to be weaving in and out, rather than just holding a consistent line.
2. On jumps, I'm tending to "dead sailor" a lot more than before.
3. general not-niceness. (technical term there for ya)

 

 

• Could it be just down to cockpit setup? So if I duplicate my HT setup I'd duplicate the results?

   

  YES

   

• Does rim IW make that much of a difference?

   

  Not in the way you're describing, but it could be a small contributor ito outright grip. Going from 24 to 35mm I noticed a distinct increase in grip, which gave me a bit more confidence. Also - less tyre roll.

 

• Or could it be that I know absolutely nothing about suspension setup and I got lucky when tinkering with the 34?

   

  Also very possible. If it's the RC Dual position pike, sorry... crap damper. If it's the RCT3, play around a bit with pressures, tokens etc. 

 

[usxorf]

For your Monday woes, I give you a challenge.

 

I am in a predicament: I had 2 "enduro" bikes. One hard tail (HT) and one full sus (FS). Now I only have one (the FS) and after riding the other, it feels like absolute crap.

 

The 3 main issues are:

• In fast corners - I now seem to be weaving in and out, rather than just holding a consistent line.
• On jumps, I'm tending to "dead sailor" a lot more than before.
• general not-niceness. (technical term there for ya)

Now I put it to you guys to deduce the main antagonist, as there are many differences other than having or not having rear travel.

 

Rims:

HT: 30mm IW

FS: 21mm IW

 

same tires.

 

Bars:

HT: 800mm

FS: 760mm

 

Stem:

HT: 45mm

FS: 60mm

 

Fork:

HT: Fox34 Factory - 160mm - Boost

FS: RS Pike RCT3 - 160mm - non-boost

• Could it be just down to cockpit setup? So if I duplicate my HT setup I'd duplicate the results?
• Does rim IW make that much of a difference?
• Or could it be that I know absolutely nothing about suspension setup and I got lucky when tinkering with the 34?

*edit: Updated forks

I may be on the extreme side of things but it took me about 4 months of weekends to get used to a new bike. So apart from the setup it could just be that the fs requires different body English to get it to do what you want. Weight a bit more forward while cornering, or a bit of a bar twist while jumping so you don't sailor.

 

I was ready to give up but then it all clicked, without changing any setup. But a 60mm stem has no place on a #duro, and 800 for life.

[MarcBurger]

It's not a new bike. I've had it for going on 5 years now. Was just a matter of not knowing what you're missing out on until you try another bike with a different setup and components, then trying to mimic the other bike's positives while taking note of the negatives.

 

Will definitely do a lot of tinkering with the suspension. I generally do, just haven't found that sweet spot on the Pike. The Fox came great out of the box (did need a longer run-in period than I remember doing on the Pike though)

Absolute worst case I'll borrow someones shockwiz and do Haka till I fall over.

 

Am definitely swapping out the cockpit a bit: Will do a 50mm stem with 780-790mm bars to start. 800 was a bit long, was just lazy to cut them.

The main concern over the stem is my HT was quite a bit longer than the FS. Might make the bike feel a bit cramped.

 

Will see.

 

El Bike, for reference:

 

*Edit: will definitely try taking a mental note of the bar twist. thanks 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

It's not a new bike. I've had it for going on 5 years now. Was just a matter of not knowing what you're missing out on until you try another bike with a different setup and components, then trying to mimic the other bike's positives while taking note of the negatives.

 

Will definitely do a lot of tinkering with the suspension. I generally do, just haven't found that sweet spot on the Pike. The Fox came great out of the box (did need a longer run-in period than I remember doing on the Pike though)

Absolute worst case I'll borrow someones shockwiz and do Haka till I fall over.

 

Am definitely swapping out the cockpit a bit: Will do a 50mm stem with 780-790mm bars to start. 800 was a bit long, was just lazy to cut them.

The main concern over the stem is my HT was quite a bit longer than the FS. Might make the bike feel a bit cramped.

 

Will see.

 

El Bike, for reference:

 

*Edit: will definitely try taking a mental note of the bar twist. thanks 

Hmmmmm... bold bit makes me think you're on the wrong size bike, which will definitely contribute to what you're feeling. 

[GrahamS2]

My experience with the Pike on my Intense was that it takes a lot of setup to get right, and a lot of fiddling with the rear to get the whole rig feeling balanced. Sounds like you may have something similar.

 

I'd start from scratch: redo setup on fork and shock, then redo cockpit setup, then revisit fork and shock. 

[Bos]

For your Monday woes, I give you a challenge.

 

I am in a predicament: I had 2 "enduro" bikes. One hard tail (HT) and one full sus (FS). Now I only have one (the FS) and after riding the other, it feels like absolute crap.

 

The 3 main issues are:

1. In fast corners - I now seem to be weaving in and out, rather than just holding a consistent line.
2. On jumps, I'm tending to "dead sailor" a lot more than before.
3. general not-niceness. (technical term there for ya)

Now I put it to you guys to deduce the main antagonist, as there are many differences other than having or not having rear travel.

 

Rims:

HT: 30mm IW

FS: 21mm IW

 

same tires.

 

Bars:

HT: 800mm

FS: 760mm

 

Stem:

HT: 45mm

FS: 60mm

 

Fork:

HT: Fox34 Factory - 160mm - Boost

FS: RS Pike RCT3 - 160mm - non-boost

 

• Could it be just down to cockpit setup? So if I duplicate my HT setup I'd duplicate the results?
• Does rim IW make that much of a difference?
• Or could it be that I know absolutely nothing about suspension setup and I got lucky when tinkering with the 34?

*edit: Updated forks

 

Swap your wheels between bikes?  21 ID rims on a bike with a pike is sacrilege..!

 

And my second answer is...You're over thinking it. go ride. Or there might be something very wrong with your FS settup. HT's are definitely better to jump at a dirtjump settup, but hitting jumps at speed in the trails should be better on a FS. 

[Headshot]

For your Monday woes, I give you a challenge.

 

I am in a predicament: I had 2 "enduro" bikes. One hard tail (HT) and one full sus (FS). Now I only have one (the FS) and after riding the other, it feels like absolute crap.

 

The 3 main issues are:

1. In fast corners - I now seem to be weaving in and out, rather than just holding a consistent line.
2. On jumps, I'm tending to "dead sailor" a lot more than before.
3. general not-niceness. (technical term there for ya)

Now I put it to you guys to deduce the main antagonist, as there are many differences other than having or not having rear travel.

 

Rims:

HT: 30mm IW

FS: 21mm IW

 

same tires.

 

Bars:

HT: 800mm

FS: 760mm

 

Stem:

HT: 45mm

FS: 60mm

 

Fork:

HT: Fox34 Factory - 160mm - Boost

FS: RS Pike RCT3 - 160mm - non-boost

 

• Could it be just down to cockpit setup? So if I duplicate my HT setup I'd duplicate the results?
• Does rim IW make that much of a difference?
• Or could it be that I know absolutely nothing about suspension setup and I got lucky when tinkering with the 34?

*edit: Updated forks

The Pike should not be hard to sort out. I have the DPA 160 and have found that it actually requires far less air than the table on the leg recommends for my weight. 

 

I doubt the stem is an issue. I have a 70mm on my HT and have found that I got used to it very easily over the 50 it had before. 

 

The jumping issue sounds like rear shock and technique. Try slowing the rear rebound and see if that helps then work on your timing, remembering to make sure that as your rear wheel leaves the lip, your front wheel is higher than the rear. I have found that rotating my wrists backwards ie almost like twisting a throttle give the front wheel a nice kick skywards.  

[Alouette3]

I struggled a bit to get my Pike setup, but found the sweet spot after a couple rides. I'm about 10psi under the recommended setting.

 

Check how many tokens are fitted. Set pressure for good small bump performance, then add tokens to prevent bottoming out.

[Bos]

The Pike should not be hard to sort out. I have the DPA 160 and have found that it actually requires far less air than the table on the leg recommends for my weight. 

 

I doubt the stem is an issue. I have a 70mm on my HT and have found that I got used to it very easily over the 50 it had before. 

 

The jumping issue sounds like rear shock and technique. Try slowing the rear rebound and see if that helps then work on your timing, remembering to make sure that as your rear wheel leaves the lip, your front wheel is higher than the rear. I have found that rotating my wrists backwards ie almost like twisting a throttle give the front wheel a nice kick skywards.  

 

Some good advice here. Longer travel bikes are definitely very different to jump on steeper jumps especially. A hard tail is more predictable. With the FS, as the bike compresses through the apex of the jump it starts rebounding as you drive towards the lip, this is why your rear rebound should be slower than your front. The front wheel then leaves the lip while the rear is still busy rebounding, which can also "buck" the rider. Is that the right term? Call it nosedive...

 

I'm getting very technical here.  But the most important is to just go ride, practice makes perfect. Having said that, Body positioning / weight centering is one of the most important aspects when it comes to jumping. Make sure you're balanced & centered over your bars and you are not pedaling right up to the lip. A natural reflex action when hitting a jump when you're scared or unsure is to lean back. On a HT it will send you nose high into a dead sailor which you might land or might loop out of on the landing, but on the FS that rebound of the rear wheel will pop you straight over the bars since all your weight is on the back wheel. and your body weight will override whatever the bike does because its 10x more. 

 

Sorry to get technical here, I just went through the same thing learning to jump a FS after I use to DJ on a jump bike for many years.

[Duane_Bosch]

I struggled a bit to get my Pike setup, but found the sweet spot after a couple rides. I'm about 10psi under the recommended setting.

 

Check how many tokens are fitted. Set pressure for good small bump performance, then add tokens to prevent bottoming out.

What are your settings?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Some good advice here. Longer travel bikes are definitely very different to jump on steeper jumps especially. A hard tail is more predictable. With the FS, as the bike compresses through the apex of the jump it starts rebounding as you drive towards the lip, this is why your rear rebound should be slower than your front. The front wheel then leaves the lip while the rear is still busy rebounding, which can also "buck" the rider. Is that the right term? Call it nosedive...

 

I'm getting very technical here.  But the most important is to just go ride, practice makes perfect. Having said that, Body positioning / weight centering is one of the most important aspects when it comes to jumping. Make sure you're balanced & centered over your bars and you are not pedaling right up to the lip. A natural reflex action when hitting a jump when you're scared or unsure is to lean back. On a HT it will send you nose high into a dead sailor which you might land or might loop out of on the landing, but on the FS that rebound of the rear wheel will pop you straight over the bars since all your weight is on the back wheel. and your body weight will override whatever the bike does because its 10x more. 

 

Sorry to get technical here, I just went through the same thing learning to jump a FS after I use to DJ on a jump bike for many years.

knowledge bomb, right here. 

[GrahamS2]

What are your settings?

I weigh 94 and mine is at 65psi with 2 tokens. Waaaayyyy lower than suggested.

[MarcBurger]

Seems the comments (however valid) got quite derailed. The essence of the post was that you don't know how bad your setup is, until you try a better one. and the quest to have a better overall setup with minimal input/change. It became more of a how-to DJ with a full sus.

Things like "just go ride your bike" are a bit of an irrelevant statement. When we're riding, we ride, we ride a lot. When we're working, we're thinking about riding, and talking about riding.

 

In a nutshell the best suggested solution was to start from scratch, now knowing how it should feel. Rather than just tweaking a bad initial setup. Then tweak things later. Will start with a potentially overdue shock service.

The cockpit will change slightly. The wheels wont.

 

Edit:

My current setup, give or take changes depending where I'm riding:

Weigh 85kg

Pike: 75psi (2 tokens), rebound 2 clicks towards faster

Rear: 30-32% sag: 1 click towards slower.

[Duane_Bosch]

I weigh 94 and mine is at 65psi with 2 tokens. Waaaayyyy lower than suggested.

on the 140mm pike?

 

I'm running 4 tokens at about 70psi. gonna probably settle on 3 tokens.

[Alouette3]

Pike is at 58-60psi, back up to 2 tokens. 69kg rider without kit.

 

SRAM website calculator recommends 70psi. Also discovered my pump was under reading by 10psi!!!! Explains why it felt hard as rocks.

 

I've also removed 3 of the 4 volume reducers from my Monarch at the back

[Headshot]

Seems the comments (however valid) got quite derailed. The essence of the post was that you don't know how bad your setup is, until you try a better one. and the quest to have a better overall setup with minimal input/change. It became more of a how-to DJ with a full sus.

Things like "just go ride your bike" are a bit of an irrelevant statement. When we're riding, we ride, we ride a lot. When we're working, we're thinking about riding, and talking about riding.

 

In a nutshell the best suggested solution was to start from scratch, now knowing how it should feel. Rather than just tweaking a bad initial setup. Then tweak things later. Will start with a potentially overdue shock service.

The cockpit will change slightly. The wheels wont.

 

Edit:

My current setup, give or take changes depending where I'm riding:

Weigh 85kg

Pike: 75psi (2 tokens), rebound 2 clicks towards faster

Rear: 30-32% sag: 1 click towards slower.

Sounded more like a cry for help because you were about to dead sailor yourself into oblivion on the next jump, to me, so we we just trying to save your life :-) 

 

Those fork shock settings are confusing me. Is the fork 2 clicks from full slow and the shock 1 click in the opposite direction from max rebound speed? 

 

If that's the case I'd say part of your problem is right there.  My general rule of thumb is faster rebound on the fork and slower out back.