Freedom challenge 2013 route access issues

[lnature543]

"Fact remains.." Neither do you

The status quo is that people have been using that route for many, many years. It would be disingenuous to assert otherwise.

 

"So the status quo will continue and the property will remain closed without the necessary arrangements"

You mean that your unlawfully erected gate will remain locked and riders and walkers will simply carry on doing what we have always done, just keep going through?

 

Oh yes, has the razor-wire been sorted out yet ?

 

edit: clarification

Mr Rissik, you are obviously trying to agitate the situation for whatever agenda it is you have.

I have been visiting that part of the Kloof for about 15 years now and there has always been a locked gate that we needed a code for to get in. They recently put up a new fence where the boundary line of the farm changed, but still the old gate was always locked.

I do remember noticing the fence next to the old gate being trampled flat over time by people climbing over it, no doubt you lot.

How you can just decide for yourself that this is justified on private property and cause damage to the property on top of it is beyond me.

We always have been going there for the peace and quiet, but it seems that you have other plans for the place!

[DJR]

@ Inature

 

Johan Rissik and those who advocate for open access, only want to prevent the owners from closing something which they feel the owners had no right to close. They argue that it has been a public access road for people living in and visiting The Hel for a 150 years, possibly for millennia.

 

The owners feel that it is their property and they can allow or exclude who they want. They only started to lock the gate when they bought the property, before that it was "always" open.Perhaps the owners are not legally a 100% entitled to their peace and quiet? If there is indeed a public right to access, they are obliged to allow it without insisting on people asking for permission.

The case is currently heading for the courts who will make the final decision about who is right or wrong. I am as interested as anyone who love the place, to see the outcome. There is a lot of history and baggage here and the good, bad and ugly are not all that easy to define. Wait for the court to tell us who is who.

[Chro Mo]

Mr Rissik, you are obviously trying to agitate the situation for whatever agenda it is you have.

I have been visiting that part of the Kloof for about 15 years now and there has always been a locked gate that we needed a code for to get in. They recently put up a new fence where the boundary line of the farm changed, but still the old gate was always locked.

I do remember noticing the fence next to the old gate being trampled flat over time by people climbing over it, no doubt you lot.

How you can just decide for yourself that this is justified on private property and cause damage to the property on top of it is beyond me.

We always have been going there for the peace and quiet, but it seems that you have other plans for the place!

A little late on the draw here.....

 

I think the situation has been resolved, if i read correctly on the RASA website.

[DJR]

Hi Chro Mo

 

RASA = Restaurant Association of SA, Reiki Association of SA, Reading Association of SA?

 

I'm too dumb. Please help. Have the parties come to an agreement or has a court rules on the matter?

[lnature543]

@ Inature

 

Johan Rissik and those who advocate for open access, only want to prevent the owners from closing something which they feel the owners had no right to close. They argue that it has been a public access road for people living in and visiting The Hel for a 150 years, possibly for millennia.

 

The owners feel that it is their property and they can allow or exclude who they want. They only started to lock the gate when they bought the property, before that it was "always" open.Perhaps the owners are not legally a 100% entitled to their peace and quiet? If there is indeed a public right to access, they are obliged to allow it without insisting on people asking for permission.

 

The case is currently heading for the courts who will make the final decision about who is right or wrong. I am as interested as anyone who love the place, to see the outcome. There is a lot of history and baggage here and the good, bad and ugly are not all that easy to define. Wait for the court to tell us who is who.

I'm just wondering about this as you say "If there is indeed a public right to acces...".

How long has Freedom Challenge been around now? +/- 10 Years?

So if there was a locked gate before that time (at least 15 years that I know of) then surely the organisers/riders don't have the right to take the law into their own hands by crossing the property without the matter being resolved first?

[deanbean]

Hi Chro Mo

 

RASA = Restaurant Association of SA, Reiki Association of SA, Reading Association of SA?

 

I'm too dumb. Please help. Have the parties come to an agreement or has a court rules on the matter?

Race Across South Africa=Freedom Challenge

Inature you seem to have a particular axe to grind about this issue, this is the only thread that you have commented on.

IMHO I think the the organisers of the Freedom Challenge have a valid point, and this is contrary to my usual stance on these matters.

[Chro Mo]

Race Across South Africa=Freedom Challenge

Inature you seem to have a particular axe to grind about this issue, this is the only thread that you have commented on.

IMHO I think the the organisers of the Freedom Challenge have a valid point, and this is contrary to my usual stance on these matters.

What he said!

[lnature543]

Race Across South Africa=Freedom Challenge

Inature you seem to have a particular axe to grind about this issue, this is the only thread that you have commented on.

IMHO I think the the organisers of the Freedom Challenge have a valid point, and this is contrary to my usual stance on these matters.

I came across this thread through internet searches after I heard about the issue so I'm not sure about others that you refer to. I only speak from a perspective of someone who enjoys the place for a reason other than passing through on a mountain bike.

Anyway, you all seem to think that the only right answer is yours and that the people who actually own the property have no say in the matter. And while it might be possible that the race organisers have a point, it is also possible that the owners have a valid point too.

As DJR said above it is a matter that would have to be decided in a court most likely.

So my question is still how the riders could have trampled a fence next to a gate that had been locked for years before they arrived without sorting out the issue first? It just seems a bit wrong somehow and if it was my place I would also not be happy about it.

[paarlmtb]

I came across this thread through internet searches after I heard about the issue so I'm not sure about others that you refer to. I only speak from a perspective of someone who enjoys the place for a reason other than passing through on a mountain bike.

Anyway, you all seem to think that the only right answer is yours and that the people who actually own the property have no say in the matter. And while it might be possible that the race organisers have a point, it is also possible that the owners have a valid point too.

As DJR said above it is a matter that would have to be decided in a court most likely.

So my question is still how the riders could have trampled a fence next to a gate that had been locked for years before they arrived without sorting out the issue first? It just seems a bit wrong somehow and if it was my place I would also not be happy about it.

 

I rode in last year August from Prince Albert and rode out again the next day. I met a very friendly lady who is one of the original Kloofers. Having read this thread I asked her about the access to the Ladder.

 

She was adamant that access had always been available and that she sent her son to cut the fence whenever it was repaired because of something in a title deed in her possession. (If I remember correctly)

 

She was quite enthusiastic in her outrage!!

 

I personally hope the issues are sorted out amicably and that the route will remain open so we can experience the history.

[lnature543]

I rode in last year August from Prince Albert and rode out again the next day. I met a very friendly lady who is one of the original Kloofers. Having read this thread I asked her about the access to the Ladder.

 

She was adamant that access had always been available and that she sent her son to cut the fence whenever it was repaired because of something in a title deed in her possession. (If I remember correctly)

 

She was quite enthusiastic in her outrage!!

 

I personally hope the issues are sorted out amicably and that the route will remain open so we can experience the history.

Interesting. I would also be quite keen to see how this gets resolved.

I've heard they have the same dispute with the owner of Boschluyskloof (a game farm) at the top of the ladder. I wonder if the same opinion applies there?

Edited June 3, 2014 by lnature543

[Ketoorskop]

"Fact remains.." Neither do you

The status quo is that people have been using that route for many, many years. It would be disingenuous to assert otherwise.

 

"So the status quo will continue and the property will remain closed without the necessary arrangements"

You mean that your unlawfully erected gate will remain locked and riders and walkers will simply carry on doing what we have always done, just keep going through?

 

Oh yes, has the razor-wire been sorted out yet ?

 

edit: clarification

 

No Johann, the old gate was locked before you got there and you are blatantly lying if you say otherwise.

So you are the one taking the law into your own hands by trespassing, because until there is sufficient proof and the owners are compelled to open the gate, it will remain locked (the new gate) and you don't have the authority to decide that it shouldn't be.

Best you stop selling false information to people who are paying good money to do the Freedom Trail tours and race.

[Reg Lizard]

I hope that these riders also noticed that the road that they have been using through the Anysberg Nature Reserve

has recently been closed.

[Shebeen]

I hope that these riders also noticed that the road that they have been using through the Anysberg Nature Reserve

has recently been closed.

The route now goes through the anysberg main gate, I don't think anyone will miss the sand.

[Shebeen]

.......

welcome back.

[jugheaddave]

Life is to short for this kind of ****. I am of the opinion that the la d owners need to chill out a little!!!!

[dirtrider]

Busy reading the trail notes and this is the comment in there about the Gamkaskloof/Boshluiskloof route , don't know if it has been posted already : Note that despite the owners' attempts to close it off, this is a public right of way. Climb the fence and if you are stopped tell the person:

- you were a guest of the Jouberts

- it is an historical route

- they should contact their lawyers (with whom the Freedom Challenge attorneys have already dealt)

Edited June 13, 2014 by dirt-rider