First Tokai MTB AGM

[two hands]

The AGM MUST NOT be a place where this is discussed

 

Agree, Pain or Shine. The AGM is not intended to be a soapbox.

What I meant was, those who wish to stand for certain positions, should motivate why, and explain how they plan to get things done (better). Hopefully yourself included?

[Iwan Kemp]

What I meant was, those who wish to stand for certain positions, should motivate why, and explain how they plan to get things done (better).

 

Yip

[Kranswurm]

I'll go put something up today

 

The general idea would be to put flyers in all the shops as well as to the clubs

[Flowta]

Not 'good'. Essential. Probbaly also legally required.

Wow, guys. You mean the AGM has only been advertised on the Hub? *SMH

As heated as the thread has got this is not the 'public' forum to constitute sufficient notice for all interested parties.

If you're calling for an AGM the onus falls on you to get as many interested parties there as possible. If I hadn't stumbled on this thread I'd have been none the wiser...

The general idea would be to put flyers in all the shops as well as to the clubs

 

This notice went only out on Friday, on thehubsa and Facebook (TokaiMTB Mountainbike Central, Tokai MTB Trail Builders Association)

 

Which seems a lot more than the last meeting apparently held on the 6 June 2013.

 

The plan always was to spread it as far as possible, this is supposed to be done by the body (TokaiMTB, and with it being an AMARider Chapter, AMARider), some have just taken the initiative to start getting the word spread.

 

I will make sure it gets put up at the gate at Tokai (if somebody hasn't done it already). And I am going passed a shop or 2. I know of another member who is going to other shops.

 

As has been requested in this thread, spread the word as much as possible. Get the largest number and most diverse type of Tokai MTBers to be there and nominate and vote.

 

That is the truly democratic way of doing things. Being an AGM (Annual General Meeting) this should happen yearly anyway.

 

I have been asking for close on a year now when this will happen. The meeting finally came about by those who posted to this thread asking the TMMTB Forum for an intervention in Tokai to effect change. The AGM and election was then proposed by AMARider.

 

Nominate and Vote who YOU want to be on the committee, should they be prepared to accept the nomination and serve (I hope Deon reconsiders his position, seeing as far as I am concerned he is already being nominated)

 

Dave

[Kranswurm]

This notice went only out on Friday, on thehubsa and Facebook (TokaiMTB Mountainbike Central, Tokai MTB Trail Builders Association)

 

Which seems a lot more than the last meeting apparently held on the 6 June 2013.

 

The plan always was to spread it as far as possible, this is supposed to be done by the body (TokaiMTB, and with it being an AMARider Chapter, AMARider), some have just taken the initiative to start getting the word spread.

 

I will make sure it gets put up at the gate at Tokai (if somebody hasn't done it already). And I am going passed a shop or 2. I know of another member who is going to other shops.

 

As has been requested in this thread, spread the word as much as possible. Get the largest number and most diverse type of Tokai MTBers to be there and nominate and vote.

 

That is the truly democratic way of doing things. Being an AGM (Annual General Meeting) this should happen yearly anyway.

 

I have been asking for close on a year now when this will happen. The meeting finally came about by those who posted to this thread asking the TMMTB Forum for an intervention in Tokai to effect change. The AGM and election was then proposed by AMARider.

 

Nominate and Vote who YOU want to be on the committee, should they be prepared to accept the nomination and serve (I hope Deon reconsiders his position, seeing as far as I am concerned he is already being nominated)

 

Dave

 

I am not suprised at Deon's stance considering the treatment he received

[Thor Buttox]

Hi, all of you, I know none of the participants in this thread personally, but am an avid mtb'er. I am by no means a downhill maniac, but given that I ride with groups of beginner to average guys and gals, I think I have a reasonable understanding of what an average Joe like myself enjoys.And I would love to see Tokai as a Mtb paradise.

 

First off, the tone of this "debate" is bulls**t from a few of you. There appear to be intelligent, eloquent views expressed on both sides, and it is quite possible that both have valid views. But those saying that the trails are crap after they themselves have voluntarily excused themselves from the process, and who then say that they speak on behalf of the Mtb majority need to get over themselves. I have been riding Tokai for 5 years now and the vast majority of the trails have improved nicely. I have only ridden the snake trails once or twice and they are not in great nick, but anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that given when they were built, with total exposure to the heat, on sandy soil, that they would not hold up well. I lot of the Contermans trails are also looking dodgy, and as far as I know they were built by "professionals", as some of you call them.

 

But those making the ad hominem attacks on the current builders come across as 12 year-old narcissists who voluntarily withdrew from Xmas, and then who bitch and moan that they didn't get the biggest presents. And I'm not talking on the merits of the truth/facts/etc as I don't know them. I am talking about your ability to have a meaningful debate and create consensus. We ALL want great trails...

 

On a practical matter: are their proxies available fro the AGM? I work odd hours and will not be able to be there, but even though I have no clue who he is, I would like "DJR" to vote on my behalf. And I really hope Deon reconsiders his deicision to step down.

 

Good luck to everyone - cos I'm sure you are all a lot closer together on this than you think.

[Pappa Bear]

Might be a little late but relevant non the less......

 

 

I have a couple of questions for Vince / :

 

1) The concerned riders – are they representing the full user group of Tokai or only the DH users, which is a small % of the users?

 

2) What do you think SANParks attitude will be towards the club if the committee composes of guys that were knowingly building illegal trails in Tokai?

 

3) Have notices been placed at the Tokai entrance so that ALL users are notified about the first AGM? Everybody don’t subscribe to the Hub or DH FB pages.

 

4) What will this new committee do different than Deon? Yes I know they will build better trails but HOW will they do it. What is your plan? Do you have 20 guys lined up and ready to dig and you have your relationship with SANParks sorted? All requirements met that Deon had in place?

 

My concerns:

 

1) Only the DH will be represented in the new club resulting in 10% of the users calling shots for 100% of the trails

 

2) You don’t have a relationship with SANParks – you were recently building illegal trails in Tokai – SANParks won’t trust you since you showed that you din’t give a damm about their rules before

 

3) The “new club” members will disappear after 1 or 2 trails and then the rest of the users with sit with the resulting issues

 

Going forward:

 

1) Get a club going which represents ALL disciplines or form a Tokai DH club that will only look after the DH trails.

 

2) The workings of “Tokai trail builders” should stay as is for the interim until the new MTB club has found its feet and provided a proper plan on the way forward and their intentions for Tokai

 

3) Failing the above maintenance and trail building will drop to a null resulting in so much more issues for the new club

 

 

 

*** Wasn’t the new double black in Jonkers build in summer?

Edited February 3, 2014 by Pappa Bear

[porqui]

****NB****

 

Who gets to vote at this meeting - do you have to be a member of a specific group or groups as I know a large number of riders who are not members of any group but who really do mind what happens in/at Tokai.

 

I will be at the meeting

 

I do want to vote

 

 

interested - concerned - affected party

 

 

Also a "GATVOL" party

 

 

"Let's get Tokai on track!"

 

 

Let's make Tokia one of the top 10 worldwide- it can be done!

[Flowta]

Hi, all of you, I know none of the participants in this thread personally, but am an avid mtb'er. I am by no means a downhill maniac, but given that I ride with groups of beginner to average guys and gals, I think I have a reasonable understanding of what an average Joe like myself enjoys.And I would love to see Tokai as a Mtb paradise.

 

First off, the tone of this "debate" is bulls**t from a few of you. There appear to be intelligent, eloquent views expressed on both sides, and it is quite possible that both have valid views. But those saying that the trails are crap after they themselves have voluntarily excused themselves from the process, and who then say that they speak on behalf of the Mtb majority need to get over themselves. I have been riding Tokai for 5 years now and the vast majority of the trails have improved nicely. I have only ridden the snake trails once or twice and they are not in great nick, but anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that given when they were built, with total exposure to the heat, on sandy soil, that they would not hold up well. I lot of the Contermans trails are also looking dodgy, and as far as I know they were built by "professionals", as some of you call them.

 

But those making the ad hominem attacks on the current builders come across as 12 year-old narcissists who voluntarily withdrew from Xmas, and then who bitch and moan that they didn't get the biggest presents. And I'm not talking on the merits of the truth/facts/etc as I don't know them. I am talking about your ability to have a meaningful debate and create consensus. We ALL want great trails...

 

On a practical matter: are their proxies available fro the AGM? I work odd hours and will not be able to be there, but even though I have no clue who he is, I would like "DJR" to vote on my behalf. And I really hope Deon reconsiders his deicision to step down.

 

Good luck to everyone - cos I'm sure you are all a lot closer together on this than you think.

 

Trails could of made better use of the terrain there (my personal view), the fact that Contermans trails get tired/dodgy in summer does not mean that the line choice is bad.

 

For me, Meerendal is WAY more fun than the snake trails at the moment.

 

Any advice, criticism(constructive or not) and/or questions have been met with such venom, that it's not worth speaking to him. (My own personal experiences with him). Even a question as to when the next meeting is, or, "what's the plan?"

[Pappa Bear]

I am only a "nay sayer" because I believe the new group will not be able to sucesefully takeover.

 

They have already "removed" Deon, the one key guy from Tokai by bullying / pushing him out.

[Flowta]

I know it was directed as Vince but I feel I should answer.

 

Might be a little late but relevant non the less......

 

 

I have a couple of questions for Vince / :

 

1) The concerned riders – are they representing the full user group of Tokai or only the DH users, which is a small % of the users?

They are not solely DHers. The point of the AGM is to get the WHOLE (or as much as possible) user group to NOMINATE & VOTE

 

2) What do you think SANParks attitude will be towards the club if the committee composes of guys that were knowingly building illegal trails in Tokai?

Can't comment on the illegal trails, but AFAIK the guys involved don't want to be on the committee, but will lend a hand when the ELECTED committee asks.

 

3) Have notices been placed at the Tokai entrance so that ALL users are notified about the first AGM? Everybody don’t subscribe to the Hub or DH FB pages.

Look at my previous post

 

4) What will this new committee do different than Deon? Yes I know they will build better trails but HOW will they do it. What is your plan? Do you have 20 guys lined up and ready to dig and you have your relationship with SANParks sorted? All requirements met that Deon had in place?Hopefully bolster Deon's efforts, put people in place who have the correct skills, Deon has been doing a great job at liaising with SANparks, even if he gets emotional/frustrated at times.

 

My concerns:

 

1) Only the DH will be represented in the new club resulting in 10% of the users calling shots for 100% of the trails

No, the committee will be NOMINATED & ELECTED by the majority of people who turn up at the AGM.

 

2) You don’t have a relationship with SANParks – you were recently building illegal trails in Tokai – SANParks won’t trust you since you showed that you din’t give a damm about their rules before

Can't comment on the illegal building, but they don't want to be on the committee, they think there are BETTER people suited for it than them.

 

3) The “new club” members will disappear after 1 or 2 trails and then the rest of the users with sit with the resulting issues

It's not a "NEW CLUB", there needs to be accountability and transparency for each and every aspect of the bodies actions. Constant communication is a key.\

****, if the guys aren't doing their job right, call them out on it. I know I will.

 

I will also ask questions in a PUBLIC SPACE, if I think it concerns the greater majority.

 

Going forward:

 

1) Get a club going which represents ALL disciplines or form a Tokai DH club that will only look after the DH trails.

Look above

 

2) The workings of “Tokai trail builders” should stay as is for the interim until the new MTB club has found its feet and provided a proper plan on the way forward and their intentions for Tokai

That's the point of the committee, I've been asking to see/get an idea of the current "plan" for a while now.

 

3) Failing the above maintenance and trail building will drop to a null resulting in so much more issues for the new club

 

 

 

*** Wasn’t the new double black in Jonkers build in summer?

Can't comment, how much is under pine?

[Slowbee]

Having had this thread brought to my attention, I have had a read.

 

I have also never ridden at/in/on Tokai i.e. I can only take what is on this thread.

 

How does Oldflow fit into all this lot ?

 

And a question directly at Oldflow, I see your complaints, I see you grievance. But I don't see any action comments? Within the last couple of months have you helped fix/build/maintain/give money to/contribute or do anything to the trails at Tokai ?

[Flowta]

****NB****

 

Who gets to vote at this meeting - do you have to be a member of a specific group or groups as I know a large number of riders who are not members of any group but who really do mind what happens in/at Tokai.

 

I will be at the meeting

 

I do want to vote

 

 

interested - concerned - affected party

 

 

Also a "GATVOL" party

 

 

"Let's get Tokai on track!"

 

 

Let's make Tokia one of the top 10 worldwide- it can be done!

 

Anyone can NOMINATE and VOTE, you do not need to be a part of any specific group.

[Pappa Bear]

I know it was directed as Vince but I feel I should answer.

 

Thanks for answering Flowta.

 

So what if only DHers or a majority of DHers turns up at the AGM? Will they still look after ALL trails?

[Pappa Bear]

My first question to the club: How will you engage with SANparks - Do you have a replacment for Deon, now that he left?

[Thor Buttox]

 

 

Trails could of made better use of the terrain there (my personal view), the fact that Contermans trails get tired/dodgy in summer does not mean that the line choice is bad.

 

For me, Meerendal is WAY more fun than the snake trails at the moment.

 

Any advice, criticism(constructive or not) and/or questions have been met with such venom, that it's not worth speaking to him. (My own personal experiences with him). Even a question as to when the next meeting is, or, "what's the plan?"

Your response to my post is exactly what I mean in my previous post. Very civil, chilled, etc and exactly what I mean by consensus building. Except that have seen no evidence of the venom of which you speak. As a total independent, I have always seen or felt Deon to respond fairly politely on this forum. Rather don't being up the personal stuff, and get the likes of myself, Papa Bear, Porqui, etc on by presenting your plans at the AGM. We all seem to share the same concerns, questions, etc.

 

And I love Meerendal and Contermanskloof. But I really think Boulders, My roots, Fairy Garden are much better. I just think those who have been involved deserve a few kudo's, cos the vast majority of us extremely average lads don't mind a pedal on a downhill, and battle with hectic trails at the best of times. But we we would always support a downhill mayhem track if we could become like Maritzburg