Trail Runners in Tokai...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Sense of humour failure? Huh? The safety argument has already been made - go back and read, What more do you want to hear?

 

Maybe there should be a speed limit for MTB's. It will be safer and allow the trail runners to carry on using all the trails that the MTB peeps pay good money and spend a lot of time maintaining.

 

noooooo! Almost as bad as the directionality time brackets that were put forward a while back (up only from 6-12, down only from 12-6)

[DJR]

Oi, I have a headache already!

[porqui]

Drop the fees issue - it will make no difference as none of the MTB activity card fees go to anything cycling related.

 

We do not pay fees to use any roads so we should then not be on the roads.

 

This is a SAFETY issue - and then I beg the question "what is the difference between runners or cyclists going UP tracks where cyclists come DOWN at speed?"

 

There are sections even Vasbyt where going downhill you cannot see anyone coming up the track.

 

I would far rather plough into a soft runner than a hard cyclist

[Headshot]

So true. We aren't exactly the most accepting bunch, even within our own discipline.

 

Sad.

 

As for the safety, the rules (or lack thereof) need to be amended as the volume of traffic increases. With the lower numbers of years past, the trail running and MTB coexisting topic was less of an issue as the volume of runners just weren't there. It's only in the past 2 years that the running has increased to such a point that it has become dangerous to house the 2 disciplines on the same trail. Speed differential, direction difference and just plain apathy is the main reason for the safety concern.

 

In addition to that, running over features destroys them - plain and simple. Less than a horse would, but the impression of a foot will cause runnels and eddies to form faster than they would without foot traffic (akin to locking the back brakes)

 

Basically - the more runners on the trail, the more dangerous it becomes for both parties, especially when the 2 user groups are travelling in opposite directions, and with the ever-increasing height of the growth on the trails.

 

Yep, the safety issues are pretty obvious really aren't they.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Drop the fees issue - it will make no difference as none of the MTB activity card fees go to anything cycling related.

 

We do not pay fees to use any roads so we should then not be on the roads.

 

This is a SAFETY issue - and then I beg the question "what is the difference between runners or cyclists going UP tracks where cyclists come DOWN at speed?"

 

There are sections even Vasbyt where going downhill you cannot see anyone coming up the track.

 

I would far rather plough into a soft runner than a hard cyclist

 

hence the directionality debate. But I for one would not like to have Vasbyt (for example) closed until there is a viable up - only trail, or at least one being built. I can handle a year of not going up Vasbyt in return for down only on Vasbyt, if there's a promise of up-only trail within a particular time-frame.

[Capricorn]

Golefty: man close to my heart. good points!

 

as consideration priorities:

1. safety

2. community

3. exclusivity

4. ?

 

point 1 is non-negotiable.

2. is contentious for historical reasons in the light of recent developments. Someones need to sit down and really think about how we can achieve this with existing trails (and provide clarity SOON) even though the reality is, we will need more trails to accomodate the increasing number of trail users of all backgrounds. This will require representation from all trail users, and only then can communal consensus be reached. If the TnT group is the largest, get them on board. I'm sure this is already in play

 

3. Exclusivity: based on 1 and 2 above. Where community cannot be achieved, there must be exclusivity. Again, the communal discussion should decide where that exclusivity is other than the obvious. The obvious are the DH trails. its just a no-no for pedestrian usage, but it will also be highly debated based on actual usage frequency by the DHers themselves. its like crossing a red robot when there are no cars around to activate the timing. But as a rule, no runners.

[Headshot]

Drop the fees issue - it will make no difference as none of the MTB activity card fees go to anything cycling related.

 

We do not pay fees to use any roads so we should then not be on the roads.

 

This is a SAFETY issue - and then I beg the question "what is the difference between runners or cyclists going UP tracks where cyclists come DOWN at speed?"

 

There are sections even Vasbyt where going downhill you cannot see anyone coming up the track.

 

I would far rather plough into a soft runner than a hard cyclist

 

Good point.

 

Its also time of day dependent and with the shorter days the daylight window to ride is shorter. When cyclists are making their way down the hill while its still light, runners are starting up... met a bunch on Vasbyt once taking pics of the full moon rising.

[porqui]

It's going to make no difference what time of day I plough into something - outcome is the same

[droo]

Maybe there should be a speed limit for MTB's.

 

Ya. I'd like to see you enforce that. As with so many areas of modern life (think liquor laws etc) you're advocating limiting the freedoms of the many (usually not the main culprits) to compensate for the wilful stupidity and/or selfishness of the few. These few, incidentally, are the ones most likely to disregard the laws anyway.

 

Common sense beats rules and regulations every time, it's just that it's a really scarce commodity these days.

 

EDIT: on the headphones point from an earlier post, anyone on a multi-use trail with headphones should be shot on sight.

Edited June 3, 2014 by droo

[Dan Dob]

WRT the differences between cyclists going up a trail vs runners going up the same trail. An important consideration here is that runners (if they aren't mtbers) do not realise what speeds a mtb can achieve going down a trail, whereas a mtber obviously has a better idea therefore they show a bit more respect to breaking distances and getting out the way.

 

What I have also noticed is that most trail runners tend to look right in front of their feet (downwards), whereas mtbers tend to look up the trail more, thereby giving them more time to react and see riders coming down.

 

I'll edit this just to say that I am both mtber and trail runner and see no need to run on Tokai mtb trails as there are a thousand (literally) other routes that are better to run on around Table Mountain.

Edited June 3, 2014 by iRide

[GoLefty!!]

there are trails that are now over grown on the northern side of Vasbyt, running close to the fence. these can be reopened (first need to find them again but that shouldn't be too hard) and used as the "UP".

We can accomodate runners on this section. SANParks don;t want new trails built but technically these are not new, just out of use...

 

I also strongly advocate the need for all mountain bikers to have a bell on the handlebars. It must also be dayglo pink in the interests of visibility.

[Shebeen]

Interesting to see some cyclists here discussing ploughing into a runner. Joke or not, it's the same attitude to a car ploughing into a cyclist on the road.

 

Hypocrisy is never hip.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

there are trails that are now over grown on the northern side of Vasbyt, running close to the fence. these can be reopened (first need to find them again but that shouldn't be too hard) and used as the "UP".

We can accomodate runners on this section. SANParks don;t want new trails built but technically these are not new, just out of use...

 

I also strongly advocate the need for all mountain bikers to have a bell on the handlebars. It must also be dayglo pink in the interests of visibility.

 

On "that corner" on Vasbyt (just before the rock drop) and any other sections with reduced visibility, I've now taken to shouting "riiiider!" to warn anybody coming up...

[Shebeen]

 

I'll edit this just to say that I am both mtber and trail runner.

just because you did a comrades years back doesn't mean you still a runner!

[Dan Dob]

Damnit Steve-I knew you'd say that! I still venture out on trail runs-just never on the road again

[Headshot]

WRT the differences between cyclists going up a trail vs runners going up the same trail. An important consideration here is that runners (if they aren't mtbers) do not realise what speeds a mtb can achieve going down a trail, whereas a mtber obviously has a better idea therefore they show a bit more respect to breaking distances and getting out the way.

 

What I have also noticed is that most trail runners tend to look right in front of their feet (downwards), whereas mtbers tend to look up the trail more, thereby giving them more time to react and see riders coming down.

 

Good points. There are many factors at play here. The distraction element is a problem. You see one runner, but round the corner there are 6 more you can't. Have they heard you or not? Will they get out of the way? Will you be able to stop in time? Will you make the corner or jump if you have to brake or take a different line?

 

Its not the same as a group of runners and hikers meeting on a trail. Then again, if you are dawdling along meeting a group of hikers or runners isn't a problem really - back to the speed limit thing.

 

I think a sense of community works both ways. If a trail is for MTB, safety concerns should dictate that you stay off it. Common sense really. Its also common cause that there are far more hiking and running trails than MTB routes.

 

Treating a traffic light intersection as a stop street when its green is not quite the same as starting up a long DH section when you can only see as far as the first corner.