Trail Runners in Tokai...

[SpyDude]

First TokaiMTB post... So officially, all I can say about runners on mtb trails at the moment is that we are discussing it as a committee still (we have been in existence for 3 months and are meeting once a week nowadays, trying to get as much done as possible but you have to remember we have paying jobs as well). We have been focusing on many other important details like trail work, future trails, funding and the website, so please bear with us.

 

Most of us don't want runners on our mtb specific trails due to the danger it creates so we are hoping to be going in that direction. Signs are desperately needed all over Tokai and we are working on that too!

 

One question I'd like to ask is what would the 'rules for runners' be if they were allowed on the mtb trails? There is talk of Tokai charging for trail runners...

These are our thoughts;

Not all trails can be shared. Vasbyt and DH trails are prime examples-the speed is just too high and the jumps create situations where riders wouldn't be able to stop in time.

I-pods should be banned if you are trail running so that runners can hear mtbers

Mtbers have right of way always-it's a mtb trail

Run against the flow (if its a unidirectional mtb trail)

Is there anything else to consider as a rule?

 

TheHUB might be a good place to make a poll asking whether Tokai riders would like to share mtb trails with runners-just saying...

 

We have approached the Trail and Tar running group. They say that their group leader insists that mtbers have right of way on the trails. If that's the case then signage would be the next best bet to educate runners on trail right of way. Unfortunately I don't know what the official ruling (TMNP's) is wrt runners on mtb trails is but we will discuss next week.

Thanks, for an official responce, that is pretty awesome.

 

I vote NO RUNNERS on the ANY MTB TRAIL, unless we can ride their trails.. then and only then will it be share and share alike.

[Headshot]

Thanks for the response TMTB.

 

I do not think they should be running on any of the MTB trails at all.

 

Its all very well to say that they insist that cyclists have the right of way. All that means is that a group of runners will move and stand a little off the trail. Come round a corner a bit wide and you will still be at risk or distracted by the group and get something wrong because of that. They won't take responsibility because you did not hit them.

 

There are many km of pedestrian friendly single track on TM after all.

 

As I have said before I think TMTB needs to add a skills section to the website including some comments on situational awareness and considerate riding because some MTB riders are as bad as the trail runners IMO

[GoLefty!!]

First TokaiMTB post... So officially, all I can say about runners on mtb trails at the moment is that we are discussing it as a committee still (we have been in existence for 3 months and are meeting once a week nowadays, trying to get as much done as possible but you have to remember we have paying jobs as well). We have been focusing on many other important details like trail work, future trails, funding and the website, so please bear with us. Most of us don't want runners on our mtb specific trails due to the danger it creates so we are hoping to be going in that direction. Signs are desperately needed all over Tokai and we are working on that too! One question I'd like to ask is what would the 'rules for runners' be if they were allowed on the mtb trails? There is talk of Tokai charging for trail runners... These are our thoughts; Not all trails can be shared. Vasbyt and DH trails are prime examples-the speed is just too high and the jumps create situations where riders wouldn't be able to stop in time. I-pods should be banned if you are trail running so that runners can hear mtbers Mtbers have right of way always-it's a mtb trail Run against the flow (if its a unidirectional mtb trail) Is there anything else to consider as a rule? TheHUB might be a good place to make a poll asking whether Tokai riders would like to share mtb trails with runners-just saying... We have approached the Trail and Tar running group. They say that their group leader insists that mtbers have right of way on the trails. If that's the case then signage would be the next best bet to educate runners on trail right of way. Unfortunately I don't know what the official ruling (TMNP's) is wrt runners on mtb trails is but we will discuss next week.

 

 

 

Safety is the only justification to keep the trail runners off the MTB trails.

 

Signage is needed at both ends of the mTB trail and any junction. There are many.

 

Running clubs need to be informed by TokaiMTB and SANParks.

 

A compromise may be that the runners are allowed to run up and down the trails during specific times of the day when the MTB traffic is less heavy but this needs to be evaluated. it would at least allo the MTB community to be seen to be wanting to accomodate other trail users but safety again must be the primary motivation for any outcome.

 

Charging trail runners for trail use would be a good start. Aren't they supposed to have an activity card? I thought they were level 1 permit?

 

Trail runners should be encouraged to run with huge flags on the heads like the hand cyclists use in the August. This way we can see them a mile off....

 

every group of trail runner must be lead a lady sporting 32D mimimum.

[YUMEYA]

Ride the running trails I say.

[tunariaan]

As a runner and a cyclist im taking no sides.

If its clearly marked as a downhill course and it was actually purpose built then cyclist should have way

If its a old trail thats being converted to a course then it a 50/50

 

Back 1997-2000 when i stayed in Tokai there was very few cyclist, more runners and horse riders...the sport has grown hugely but if you haven't actually built the track for cycling then rather dont claim it as a cycling only course.

 

Why cant we all just get a long?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

As a runner and a cyclist im taking no sides.

If its clearly marked as a downhill course and it was actually purpose built then cyclist should have way

If its a old trail thats being converted to a course then it a 50/50

 

Back 1997-2000 when i stayed in Tokai there was very few cyclist, more runners and horse riders...the sport has grown hugely but if you haven't actually built the track for cycling then rather dont claim it as a cycling only course.

 

Why cant we all just get a long?

 

Thing is, Riaan, is that the trails in question ARE purpose built MTB trails. So there shouldn't be any argument at all.

[Headshot]

As a runner and a cyclist im taking no sides.

If its clearly marked as a downhill course and it was actually purpose built then cyclist should have way

If its a old trail thats being converted to a course then it a 50/50

 

Back 1997-2000 when i stayed in Tokai there was very few cyclist, more runners and horse riders...the sport has grown hugely but if you haven't actually built the track for cycling then rather dont claim it as a cycling only course.

 

Why cant we all just get a long?

 

All the cycle tracks referred to are purpose built for MTB. We can all get along just stay on the jeep track and hiking only trails

[GoLefty!!]

No they're not. The trails that are currently in use have been around for 24years at least!

They just get closed, allowed to recovered and then rebuild again.

What is now known as Vasbyt I helped recover and maintain in 1991 when MTB was still only alloed because Mr Botes allowed it!

 

 

Also please define purpose built...?

Edited June 3, 2014 by GoLefty!!

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

No they're not. The trails that are currently in use have been around for 24years at least!

They just get closed, allowed to recovered and then rebuild again.

What is now known as Vasbyt I helped recover and maintain in 1991 when MTB was still only alloed because Mr Botes allowed it!

 

 

Also please define purpose built...?

 

built and maintained for the purpose of riding bikes on.

[YUMEYA]

Lets start by making everyone pay the entry fee.

[Headshot]

Yes we know you are ancient Leftyman. What about Boulders? Cobra et al, Did you build those too?

 

Maintained and built up including jumps ie purpose built for MTB, not skate boards or parkour or hiking.

[GoLefty!!]

Yes we know you are ancient Leftyman. What about Boulders? Cobra et al, Did you build those too? Maintained and built up including jumps ie purpose built for MTB, not skate boards or parkour or hiking.

 

Eish, same old vitriol from the Hemorrhage. Get over yourself, mountain biking existed before you bought a trail bike.

Those trails have ALWAYS been built and maintained as MTB specific trails. The Horsey trails were always built and maintained for horsey types. Trail runners have ALWAYS used the mtb specific trails, long before you became an important part of the MTB chain.

 

So why should trail runners now suddenly stop having access to the same trails and paths they have been running for years?

 

Lets hear your safety argument not just your sarcasm.

 

All this is going to spark is another fight with the trail running user group. the more fights the MTB community has the less popular we're going to be.

[Pronutro]

As a trail runner (occasional MTB) I would agree that downhill type trails or any fast narrow section of trail cannot be safely shared between cyclists and runners. However, if it is

 

- a narrow trail where speeds are not (cannot be) high, or

- a wide path or road (like a gravel road)

 

then it could possibly be shared. For sure some of the tracks listed in this discussion should not be shared. I do think signage and (runner) education will help alleviate the problem *somewhat*. I suspect most runners there do not actually know what they are busy running up, let alone what downhill biking is.

 

There is no way I would run up a DH track

 

Both runners and cyclists should be able to enjoy the outdoors on tracks that are "safe" for each party, which implies separation of some tracks and sharing of others.

 

EDIT: Happy to pay for trails that are maintained b.t.w

Edited June 3, 2014 by Pronutro

[Shebeen]

this again?...it needs to be resolved.

 

I don't see how they could charge trail runners and not charge hikers. but money is not the main issue here, it's safety and 'rights'.

 

Obviously trailrunners should not be on mtb singletrack, especially not groups.

But then again, there are loads of mtbers riding illegal trails in tokai so we have no right to complain.

If you complain about trail runners and ride illegal trails you are a chop.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

All this is going to spark is another fight with the trail running user group. the more fights the MTB community has the less popular we're going to be.

 

So true. We aren't exactly the most accepting bunch, even within our own discipline.

 

Sad.

 

As for the safety, the rules (or lack thereof) need to be amended as the volume of traffic increases. With the lower numbers of years past, the trail running and MTB coexisting topic was less of an issue as the volume of runners just weren't there. It's only in the past 2 years that the running has increased to such a point that it has become dangerous to house the 2 disciplines on the same trail. Speed differential, direction difference and just plain apathy is the main reason for the safety concern.

 

In addition to that, running over features destroys them - plain and simple. Less than a horse would, but the impression of a foot will cause runnels and eddies to form faster than they would without foot traffic (akin to locking the back brakes)

 

Basically - the more runners on the trail, the more dangerous it becomes for both parties, especially when the 2 user groups are travelling in opposite directions, and with the ever-increasing height of the growth on the trails.

[Headshot]

@ Lefty

 

Sense of humour failure? Huh? The safety argument has already been made - go back and read, What more do you want to hear?

 

Maybe there should be a speed limit for MTB's. It will be safer and allow the trail runners to carry on using all the trails that the MTB peeps pay good money and spend a lot of time maintaining.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Headshot