David George reduction in sanction

[AdrianDJ]

top 3 Karoo to coast 

[Eldron]

Similar to saying "Take it and if it comes up as a banned substance we will let you know when we bust you"

A simple YES NO would be so much easier

 

 

Their hands are pretty tied - they cannot commit to anything in writing because it will effectively allow you an out if you are found guilty using a product they said was safe.

 

Nobody will ever get any response other than "we recommend not taking anything and we cannot guarantee anything. Good luck. Don't forget we are here to serve you and make the sport better for you".

 

Just another reason to hate dopers. Apart from knackering the sport we love they've made us "day to day" okes have to check what brand of toiler paper we use in case it has a fragrance that is banned. Triple farkers.

[TALUS]

You guys are kidding right? Do you really think they must test every steak, pharmacist dispensing tray and all concotions made by every charlatan that ever dreamt up a booster?

 

What is the fixation on supplements? If there was a product that can prevent flu etc. - what would Discovery or the US government save by giving it out for free?

 

If they give a list and you get the newest stuff from Nepal, how must they keep up?

 

Fact is the supplement/ alternative medicine market is unregulated and not aimed at be accurate in claims or process. Take it and take risks.

[Icycling]

You guys are kidding right? Do you really think they must test every steak, pharmacist dispensing tray and all concotions made by every charlatan that ever dreamt up a booster?

 

What is the fixation on supplements? If there was a product that can prevent flu etc. - what would Discovery or the US government save by giving it out for free?

 

If they give a list and you get the newest stuff from Nepal, how must they keep up?

 

Fact is the supplement/ alternative medicine market is unregulated and not aimed at be accurate in claims or process. Take it and take risks.

I would argue that WADA / SAIDS are kidding! Their list is so long yet certainly in cycling their very few items on the list that make a huge difference. But the list is that long as they have not designed test for that that really need to test for.

 

In recent time Contador served a 2 year ban for a substance which was hardly detectable in his blood. What WADA really needs is a test for blood doping - not a positive on a cover up. It in my opinion make WADA look incompetent.

 

Currently their is a NO Needle policy in place for Grand tour etc again because they have not designed a test for what they try to test and it's not a B12 injection!

 

So as Eldron "made us "day to day" okes have to check what brand of toiler paper we use in case it has a fragrance that is banned."

[TALUS]

If I follow (likely I don't) you are saying that if a substance exist that is a true PE but they can't test for it, or they don't know that a lab developed it then it should be legal to use.

 

Blood doping (traditional method) is easily detected.

[Eldron]

They have a really good test for blood doping - they can even tell if the blood you received was yours or not. If it's your own they can tell the difference between existing and "added" blood cells by the age of the cell.

 

It's all a bit chicken and egg. They can't be expected to be up to date on every official and homeopathic "medicine" available.

 

The strategy is:

1) Limit supplementation - I use two energy sources and a protein recovery drink. No muscle cramp/vo2booster/power increaser/diet pills/thermogenitc anything/energy increasers drugs etc.

2) Keep the supplements simple - as few multi syllabled marketing words on the label as possible. 100% whey protein without all the muscle chimp additives - energy with salts and electrolytes only. No super epic inspired mega drugs etc.

3) Buy from a reputable shop - I chose Dischem based on their attempts to comply.

4) Use a reputable brand - I use USN - this is a bit risky on my part but the price is right!

 

If I get done I'll have a clean conscience - thehub will rip me a new one though!

 

In my opinion - it's when youo start looking for that super pill to make you thinner or faster when the trouble comes in - thats when yoou start risking the ingestion of ephedrines/steroids/testosterone/illegals.

 

Keep it simple and you SHOULD be safeish.

 

 

In recent time Contador served a 2 year ban for a substance which was hardly detectable in his blood. What WADA really needs is a test for blood doping - not a positive on a cover up. It in my opinion make WADA look incompetent.
 

[Icycling]

What I am ultimately saying is sports people who are NOT trying to cheat but want to look after their health by using thing like Multi Vitamin (lifepak Nano) / other items for example Airmune which help you not get sick while traveling may suddenly produce a positive test. Their name gets dragged through the mud / ban from sport for 2 years never to be trusted again etc. Is this really what WADA / SAIDS is job is? So where do you draw the line?

My argument is that their are too many substances on the list of which many have little or no effect (positive or negative) for sport (cycling) performance - yet they still on the list. I would like to think when I am competing I would always be negative as knowingly I would never take anything that maybe positive - but now as per the response by SAIDS this morning I cannot be sure. My solution would thus be reduce the list to those substances which are truly beneficial and not something you can buy over the counter at the local supermarket / chemist. You had to knowingly be cheating.

Otherwise SAIDS in this country need to make every product purchasable in RSA over the counter as Green or Red an added to the Cal count / Nutritional information block, but that request is naturally a very big request which no doubt SAIDS does not have the funding for as it would run into million thus an unreasonable request - turn it around make the testing / banned substance list reasonable!

The comparisons has been made to speeding in this thread - why do you see Camera signage up where they may do speed control! The law is not trying to make guilty people out of innocent / not aware/ negligent people. Thus the warning! WADA / SAIDS on the other hand seem to possible think differently!

[TALUS]

They have a really good test for blood doping - they can even tell if the blood you received was yours or not. If it's your own they can tell the difference between existing and "added" blood cells by the age of the cell.

 

It's all a bit chicken and egg. They can't be expected to be up to date on every official and homeopathic "medicine" available.

 

The strategy is:

1) Limit supplementation - I use two energy sources and a protein recovery drink. No muscle cramp/vo2booster/power increaser/diet pills/thermogenitc anything/energy increasers drugs etc.

2) Keep the supplements simple - as few multi syllabled marketing words on the label as possible. 100% whey protein without all the muscle chimp additives - energy with salts and electrolytes only. No super epic inspired mega drugs etc.

3) Buy from a reputable shop - I chose Dischem based on their attempts to comply.

4) Use a reputable brand - I use USN - this is a bit risky on my part but the price is right!

 

If I get done I'll have a clean conscience - thehub will rip me a new one though!

 

In my opinion - it's when youo start looking for that super pill to make you thinner or faster when the trouble comes in - thats when yoou start risking the ingestion of ephedrines/steroids/testosterone/illegals.

 

Keep it simple and you SHOULD be safeish.

GIVE THAT MAN A BELLS!

[Edgar]

So this seems to be the extent of the response we are getting from SAIDS....

 

http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/2014/09/david-george-two-month-reduction-in-sanction/

 

I would think that is not the most transparent statement I have seen. It is a lot like JZ hiding behind a SIU and ad hoc parliamentary committee. 

 

As participants in a sport we have the right to know why a athlete that should be serving a ban is no longer serving a ban.

 

So we are no closer to knowing the truth. Smoke and Mirrors.

 

I still wait for the response to my email.

 

cheers 

 

 

[TALUS]

So this seems to be the extent of the response we are getting from SAIDS....

 

http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/2014/09/david-george-two-month-reduction-in-sanction/

 

I would think that is not the most transparent statement I have seen. It is a lot like JZ hiding behind a SIU and ad hoc parliamentary committee. 

 

As participants in a sport we have the right to know why a athlete that should be serving a ban is no longer serving a ban.

 

So we are no closer to knowing the truth. Smoke and Mirrors.

 

I still wait for the response to my email.

 

cheers

 

I think you have a valid question and deserve a proper answer.

[Nayr]

Gees surely as a professional athlete the responsibility lies firmly and squarely on you and what you chose to ingest. For the most part SAIDS is providing athletes with assistance and saying:

Right guys and gals, here's an up-to-date list of what you can and cannot take...if you are a bit confused send us the list of ingredients and we will check it out for you. Unfortunately SAIDS has come under massive attack for whatever the reasons may be and are not able to put their heads on a block, and unfortunately there is a massive Grey area because of this, but in my opinion you can't be half pregnant...you either are or you're not.

 

Now as the professional athlete, and if my balls were on the line, I would make 100% sure about everything I ingested and if I wasn't 100% I would throw it in the bin, I would pay a nutritionist to then double check just to make sure...

 

As for the DG saga, I honestly believe and it sounds like they had a pre-arrangement, in other words - Dave, walk away quietly, we'll reduce the sentence and offer the only plausible reason.

[Gen]

So this seems to be the extent of the response we are getting from SAIDS....

 

http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/2014/09/david-george-two-month-reduction-in-sanction/

 

I would think that is not the most transparent statement I have seen. It is a lot like JZ hiding behind a SIU and ad hoc parliamentary committee.

 

As participants in a sport we have the right to know why a athlete that should be serving a ban is no longer serving a ban.

 

So we are no closer to knowing the truth. Smoke and Mirrors.

 

I still wait for the response to my email.

 

cheers

So more likely he spilled the beans on some other riders, pharmacist and or suppliers.

 

Or perhaps let them know what else they are using

Edited September 17, 2014 by Gen

[Icycling]

Gees surely as a professional athlete the responsibility lies firmly and squarely on you and what you chose to ingest. For the most part SAIDS is providing athletes with assistance and saying:

Right guys and gals, here's an up-to-date list of what you can and cannot take...if you are a bit confused send us the list of ingredients and we will check it out for you. Unfortunately SAIDS has come under massive attack for whatever the reasons may be and are not able to put their heads on a block, and unfortunately there is a massive Grey area because of this, but in my opinion you can't be half pregnant...you either are or you're not.

 

Now as the professional athlete, and if my balls were on the line, I would make 100% sure about everything I ingested and if I wasn't 100% I would throw it in the bin, I would pay a nutritionist to then double check just to make sure...

 

As for the DG saga, I honestly believe and it sounds like they had a pre-arrangement, in other words - Dave, walk away quietly, we'll reduce the sentence and offer the only plausible reason.

Please read the reply posted today SAIDS sent to myself - doing basically what you have stated. I am not a professional athlete - I am almost 42 years old but I like any other funrider with a CSA license (day license included - i.e. all Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cyclist) can be subjected to a dope control. Regardless of your cycling capabilities your name will be dragged through the mud!

Edited September 17, 2014 by Icycling

[Mousea]

I think you have a valid question and deserve a proper answer.

 

Will never get a straight answer from them.

Cloak and Dagger

 

[Nayr]

Please read the reply posted today SAIDS sent to myself - doing basically what you have stated. I am not a professional athlete - I am almost 42 years old but I like any other funrider with a CSA license (day license included - i.e. all Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cyclist) can be subjected to a dope control. Regardless of your cycling capabilities your name will be dragged through the mud!

I did read the reply and from the bit i did make sense of it's very much SAIDS passing the buck and saying they can only comment on specific ingredients and not product itself. What I'm saying is...because of SAIDS' lack of committal for a want of a better word the responsibility should and does lie with the athlete to make sure, if not expect the punishment if you transgress. 

 

Now, as much as I like to think I'm a professional mountain biker, I'm just not,  so if for some reason I get tested at an event, however unlikely that may be, and i have a banned substance in me and get banned...then so be it, i doubt my name would be tarnished other than my riding mates having a laugh and nicknaming me EPO, I really couldn't be bothered to read the 'banned' list even with my CSA license. But if it were my livelihood, hmmm i would make DAMN sure...

 

I do get exactly what you're saying and completely agree with you, but i think its a bit like riding into a gale force head wind...you're not going to get anywhere.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Nayr

[Edgar]

So more likely he spilled the beans on some other riders, pharmacist and or suppliers.

 

Or perhaps let them know what else they are using

 

If that was the case, then we can expect some more busts? 

And some interesting implications....If this makes the sport cleaner and it harder for others to dope or as a major deterrent for future doping then all is well. How will we ever know?

 

If I was one particular athlete that has recently dealt with SAIDS, I would be fairly upset with what seems to be varying standards. (Not a defense)

 

SAIDS seems to work in a very cloak and dagger way and is not accountable to any higher body.