Tokai and Silvermine to remain closed to the public

[Alouette3]

capediver just make sure you have your activity card with you if you ride that bit of trail. I HAVE been stopped by Parks there and they asked for my card. Think they where surprised when I actually produced it!

[(Deon)]

Ja, as Alouette says, there is still some confusion around the route's designation. Some rangers are easy going others not. The only pickle in just riding it is that Paddy Gordon Table Mountain National Park chief lives there.. but there's also been talk of him being cool with it too. 

 

I could get official word on this but I can tell you in official form, the answer will not be yes. 

 

I will be speaking to COCT about the green belts during this time. There are some insane trails through there and may be the answer during down-time. Discussions have already started, this firecould be the catalyst.

 

Thanks for your words Cape Diver. The people really did come together, hope it lasts!

 

D

[Honingklip MTB Trails]

Hi we have a special running - because so many trails have been damaged in the fires... so have a look at our page, and perhaps you could share it...

 

Quite a few MTB trails are closed due to the recent fires in the Western Cape. We are offering a special price of just R30 for the remainder of March and including the Easter Holidays.

Come and enjoy our trails...

 

We are Honingklip MTB

Near Botriver - on the way to Hermanus

[tubed]

SANPARKS are incompetent, clueless and should have their mandate to manage the TMNP handed back to the City of Cape Town or the Province.

 

The total no go areas include:

 

Tokai

Silvermine East

Silvermine West

Vlakkenberg

Olifantsbos/ Gifkommetjie

 

The areas they have lost control of include:

 

Sandy Bay

Karbonkelberg

Lewis Gay Dams/ RedHill

Oceanview

 

Enough already - its been more than a decade of mismanagement and old school enforcement. Time to stop patting themselves on the back and be replaced by management and staff competent to run a world class resource in a world class city.

[(Deon)]

SANPARKS are incompetent, clueless and should have their mandate to manage the TMNP handed back to the City of Cape Town or the Province.

 

The total no go areas include:

 

Tokai

Silvermine East

Silvermine West

Vlakkenberg

Olifantsbos/ Gifkommetjie

 

The areas they have lost control of include:

 

Sandy Bay

Karbonkelberg

Lewis Gay Dams/ RedHill

Oceanview

 

Enough already - its been more than a decade of mismanagement and old school enforcement. Time to stop patting themselves on the back and be replaced by management and staff competent to run a world class resource in a world class city.

How will CoCT fix it? Serious question.

 

Why I ask is that we are seeing this posed as a solution more and more but apart from handing the management back, very little is provided for how the issues will be fixed.

 

Issues as you have listed above include fire damage and crime, I'm not sure if you are referring to others??

 

Crime: Maybe we should get a list going that includes the areas CoCT has "lost control" of.

 

Fire damage: Not sure what you would propose CoCT do as a solution, open these areas to the public?

 

Just as a side, last week Thursday there were still fire trucks rushing into Tokai. Saw them enter at 11am and leave just after 5. Think it's safe to assume that there are areas that still pose a risk to people.

[marko35s]

How will CoCT fix it? Serious question.

 

Why I ask is that we are seeing this posed as a solution more and more but apart from handing the management back, very little is provided for how the issues will be fixed.

 

Issues as you have listed above include fire damage and crime, I'm not sure if you are referring to others??

 

Crime: Maybe we should get a list going that includes the areas CoCT has "lost control" of.

 

Fire damage: Not sure what you would propose CoCT do as a solution, open these areas to the public?

 

Just as a side, last week Thursday there were still fire trucks rushing into Tokai. Saw them enter at 11am and leave just after 5. Think it's safe to assume that there are areas that still pose a risk to people.

There was fresh smoke rising out of there today too, around 2.30pm.

And that's after a fairly damp and rainy day.

[tubed]

How will CoCT fix it? Serious question.

 

Why I ask is that we are seeing this posed as a solution more and more but apart from handing the management back, very little is provided for how the issues will be fixed.

 

Issues as you have listed above include fire damage and crime, I'm not sure if you are referring to others??

 

Crime: Maybe we should get a list going that includes the areas CoCT has "lost control" of.

 

Fire damage: Not sure what you would propose CoCT do as a solution, open these areas to the public?

 

Just as a side, last week Thursday there were still fire trucks rushing into Tokai. Saw them enter at 11am and leave just after 5. Think it's safe to assume that there are areas that still pose a risk to people.

Sure, CoCT are not perfect and there are many areas that they may not be in control of, my neighbourhood for one.

 

The big difference is that we can can hold them accountable and they recognise the fact that they serve their stakeholders. Sanparks never have and as far as I can see never will be accountable to the community they serve. It is an organisation run from Pretoria with a very very broad mandate.

 

At a local and practical level they are in my opinion primarily gatekeepers and failing security guards. Have you ever, ever seen a Sanparks ranger fulfilling a conservation role? I cannot think of one of late. My experience of conservation on the peninsula goes back some 40 years to the days when they cared about nature and the people using the park. There are still some dedicated conservationists 

 

It was borne out this weekend by a story related to me in Cape Point about a rangers in a 4x4 dodging a tortoise in the road, not slowing down. It was left to the member of the public to move it off the road before it was squashed. Isolated example? I think not - rather a symptom of the general management of the park.

 

So as a simplistic solution I would look to the City to provide the management and stakeholder support with the finances being funded by the parks and then put Dalton Gibbs in charge - I can assure you there is no one more qualified, more experienced and more passionate - bar none.

 

As for the fires, we have had fires for decades on the peninsula, lets have some common sense now and get on with life, the fynbos will restore itself regardless of what we do if we stick to the designated roads. I dont think Sanparks have done anything in Tokai after the area has been logged recently to suggest that they allow the fynbos to restore, the allowed regrowth black wattle was a case in point.

 

Ok enough from me, hope I made some points. I seriously admire your resolve in trying to work with Sanparks, but I have lost patience a long time ago with an organisation which appears to show concern, but has no real intention of taking the stakeholders seriously 

[GLuvsMtb]

Sure, CoCT are not perfect and there are many areas that they may not be in control of, my neighbourhood for one.

 

The big difference is that we can can hold them accountable and they recognise the fact that they serve their stakeholders. Sanparks never have and as far as I can see never will be accountable to the community they serve. It is an organisation run from Pretoria with a very very broad mandate.

 

At a local and practical level they are in my opinion primarily gatekeepers and failing security guards. Have you ever, ever seen a Sanparks ranger fulfilling a conservation role? I cannot think of one of late. My experience of conservation on the peninsula goes back some 40 years to the days when they cared about nature and the people using the park. There are still some dedicated conservationists

 

It was borne out this weekend by a story related to me in Cape Point about a rangers in a 4x4 dodging a tortoise in the road, not slowing down. It was left to the member of the public to move it off the road before it was squashed. Isolated example? I think not - rather a symptom of the general management of the park.

 

So as a simplistic solution I would look to the City to provide the management and stakeholder support with the finances being funded by the parks and then put Dalton Gibbs in charge - I can assure you there is no one more qualified, more experienced and more passionate - bar none.

 

As for the fires, we have had fires for decades on the peninsula, lets have some common sense now and get on with life, the fynbos will restore itself regardless of what we do if we stick to the designated roads. I dont think Sanparks have done anything in Tokai after the area has been logged recently to suggest that they allow the fynbos to restore, the allowed regrowth black wattle was a case in point.

 

Ok enough from me, hope I made some points. I seriously admire your resolve in trying to work with Sanparks, but I have lost patience a long time ago with an organisation which appears to show concern, but has no real intention of taking the stakeholders seriously

Will you feel the same way if City of CT becomes ANC controlled with the next municipal election?

[tubed]

Will you feel the same way if City of CT becomes ANC controlled with the next municipal election?

Probably not, not such a big Fransman fan, neither Tony E - I wont be betting on them organising themselves soon, unless you have inside info. They are irrelevant imo.

 

But then I am not such a fan of Sanparks either as you can see.

 

What I will say is that it is a matter of time before the majority of the facilities previously enjoyed by all Capetonians and others become priced out of range as the golden guineafowl is expected to keep producing for Pretoria.

Already it is impossible for the majority of citizens to think of visiting Cape Point, Tokai picnic area, Hottentots Huisie, Boulders etc. That position wont go unnoticed and I agree with it.

 

I think if you read all 118 pages of the proposed management plan for TMNP, which is currently out for comment, then you wont find a single reference to mountain bikes, so I wouldn't be placing too much hope on Sanparks plans for mtb in the near future. If it happens, it will happen in spite of them.

 

http://www.houtbayheritage.org.za/tmnp-draft-mgmt-plan%202015.pdf

[Shebeen]

Probably not, not such a big Fransman fan, neither Tony E - I wont be betting on them organising themselves soon, unless you have inside info. They are irrelevant imo.

 

But then I am not such a fan of Sanparks either as you can see.

 

What I will say is that it is a matter of time before the majority of the facilities previously enjoyed by all Capetonians and others become priced out of range as the golden guineafowl is expected to keep producing for Pretoria.

Already it is impossible for the majority of citizens to think of visiting Cape Point, Tokai picnic area, Hottentots Huisie, Boulders etc. That position wont go unnoticed and I agree with it.

 

I think if you read all 118 pages of the proposed management plan for TMNP, which is currently out for comment, then you wont find a single reference to mountain bikes, so I wouldn't be placing too much hope on Sanparks plans for mtb in the near future. If it happens, it will happen in spite of them.

 

http://www.houtbayheritage.org.za/tmnp-draft-mgmt-plan%202015.pdf

i must have been asleep at the time, but who really thought it was a good idea to make it a national park in the first place? Is more of a tourist attraction surrounded by a city and an anomaly in the SANParks portfolio. Cape nature would seem a more suitable custodian to me.

[i24]

Interesting. From http://www.sanparks.org/conservation/park_man/

 

"Stakeholders are further invited to attend public information sessions at one of the venues listed below and comment on aspects relating to these plans."

 

A bunch of times/dates of meetings between 2nd and 7th March are listed. Did anybody hear of these dates being advertised? Were they ever brought to the attention of activity permit holders, or TokaiMTB? Did anybody go to any of these events? The dates coincide with the time of the fire, did the meetings actually happen?

 

It almost feels like SANPARKS want to take over our mountain and do what they think is best for us with as little interaction with, or interference from, the residents of Cape Town as possible. After the price increase débâcle last year, I am loosing what little confidence I had left in SANPARKS.

[i24]

Interesting. From http://www.sanparks.org/conservation/park_man/

 

"Stakeholders are further invited to attend public information sessions at one of the venues listed below and comment on aspects relating to these plans."

 

I just registered at:

 

http://www.sanparks....ms/reg_form.php

 

Maybe I can be an "insider" too ;-)

[Shebeen]

Interesting. From http://www.sanparks.org/conservation/park_man/

 

"Stakeholders are further invited to attend public information sessions at one of the venues listed below and comment on aspects relating to these plans."

 

A bunch of times/dates of meetings between 2nd and 7th March are listed. Did anybody hear of these dates being advertised? Were they ever brought to the attention of activity permit holders, or TokaiMTB? Did anybody go to any of these events? The dates coincide with the time of the fire, did the meetings actually happen?

 

It almost feels like SANPARKS want to take over our mountain and do what they think is best for us with as little interaction with, or interference from, the residents of Cape Town as possible. After the price increase débâcle last year, I am loosing what little confidence I had left in SANPARKS.

I'm guessing those meetings all got cancelled, with fire ranging at the time

[tubed]

i must have been asleep at the time, but who really thought it was a good idea to make it a national park in the first place? Is more of a tourist attraction surrounded by a city and an anomaly in the SANParks portfolio. Cape nature would seem a more suitable custodian to me.

Precisely, the whole management plan though is an attempt to gate areas to produce revenue, which is totally at odds with what I believe was the original intent when the heads of agreement were entered into.

 

Sanparks have imposed their vision on something which should never be managed the way it is. The practical outworking is in conflict with every person be it with trail shoes, an mtb, a picnic basket or a dog leash looking up at the mountain and wondering why they cant just access that part of the peninsula.

 

Ok, too early to get heated. Bring on the Epic again. Bikefun! 

Edited March 17, 2015 by tubed

[Flowta]

Precisely, the whole management plan though is an attempt to gate areas to produce revenue, which is totally at odds with what I believe was the original intent when the heads of agreement were entered into.

 

Sanparks have imposed their vision on something which should never be managed the way it is. The practical outworking is in conflict with every person be it with trail shoes, an mtb, a picnic basket or a dog leash looking up at the mountain and wondering why they cant just access that part of the peninsula.

 

Ok, too early to get heated. Bring on the Epic again. Bikefun! 

 

This is 100%

[GLuvsMtb]

Probably not, not such a big Fransman fan, neither Tony E - I wont be betting on them organising themselves soon, unless you have inside info. They are irrelevant imo.

 

But then I am not such a fan of Sanparks either as you can see.

 

What I will say is that it is a matter of time before the majority of the facilities previously enjoyed by all Capetonians and others become priced out of range as the golden guineafowl is expected to keep producing for Pretoria.

Already it is impossible for the majority of citizens to think of visiting Cape Point, Tokai picnic area, Hottentots Huisie, Boulders etc. That position wont go unnoticed and I agree with it.

 

I think if you read all 118 pages of the proposed management plan for TMNP, which is currently out for comment, then you wont find a single reference to mountain bikes, so I wouldn't be placing too much hope on Sanparks plans for mtb in the near future. If it happens, it will happen in spite of them.

 

http://www.houtbayheritage.org.za/tmnp-draft-mgmt-plan%202015.pdf

Remember that political tenure is short term. What if the ANC manage to bus in enough voters to take control (or split control) over the City? The interesting bit is that if this was in Europe, Canada or the US, the mountain would probably be privately owned.