[Event] Bestmed Tour Of Good Hope

[Spinnekop]

Help me out here, why can't individuals claim ownership and make money out of a race? Is that a special privilege for ASG only or are they doing it for charity?

 

Very hard for the average Joe out there to make sense of the situation with all the vague accusations and conflicting statements flying out there.

Jip....was wondering the same

[VeloRacer]

I raced Tour De Boland this year and it was run fairly smoothly. The manual timing was a massive stuff up. To ASG defence they put up quite a lot of prizes and giveaways. The goody bag was a proper one.

 

I have no idea which tour I will be riding next year but it will be the one who has the top pros in it. ie Nolan Hoffman, Sauser and the other Epic riders

[ScottCM]

Why not, that Vermaak guy is doing a good job with that red bank mtb race thing he does every march. Who actually 'owns' the Tour de boland - is it boland cycling union or Carinus?

 

Don't forget that farmer who owns the 2c franchise

[openmind]

At the risk of repeating myself 

 

BOLAND is not a province anymore...

 

...CAPE WINELANDS is the new province...

 

...so why lay claim to "Tour de Boland", OR even call a race "Tour de Boland" anymore???

Dude, have a look out of the window - the Boland is still a recognised geographical area that you are pretty much slap bang in the middle of. 

 

You seem to have a bone to pick here which is clouding your logic. Go for a ride and clear your head.

[Pure Savage]

Help me out here, why can't individuals claim ownership and make money out of a race? Is that a special privilege for ASG only or are they doing it for charity?

 

Very hard for the average Joe out there to make sense of the situation with all the vague accusations and conflicting statements flying out there.

 

The only way for cycling to expand is to run it like a business. The CTCTT is run like that, you employ great staff and pay them well and you get a world class product. Therefore if individuals would like to run it as a business and make some money in the process I find that fair.

 

If it is a good product at a good price people will enter. You cannot have people provide services for free.

 

I have taken part in an event organized by the individual in the past a few years back (Cape Monster) when ASG pulled out as a sponsor, he ran it himself on the day for us. I made some awesome new friends (Rob and Andrew) and thank the individual for putting cycling first and not money on the day.

[Patchelicious]

Help me out here, why can't individuals claim ownership and make money out of a race? Is that a special privilege for ASG only or are they doing it for charity?

 

Very hard for the average Joe out there to make sense of the situation with all the vague accusations and conflicting statements flying out there.

Individuals are able to whatever they want, when they use their own money.

 

It becomes a bit different when you are using someone else's money. So be it ASG or another backer, those backers input must be considered, and if an individual's and backers visions are no longer aligned then break downs happen.

 

Starter vs Investors relation breakdowns happen the whole time. It's part of the reality of business.

 

ASG put a massive marketing drive into this event, no doubt their input helped this event grow and become more professional.

 

No doubt Carinus feels like it's his IP.

 

See the balance of scales for what it is.

 

The fact that we as humans tend to turn on the "corporates" is just human nature and our need to support the "little guy" or the "underdog", it doesn't always make them right by default.

[Aluman]

Can you give the distances for the respective stages

[Escapee..]

Okay so nobody "owns" the event?

 

So anyone can take it and run it?

[Wez-O]

Personally i think this is in bad taste.

 

Obviously there was stuff behind the scenes that we aren't and won't ever know about and i won't say who is right or wrong. But saying TOGH is Tour DE Boland while TDB is still running is just low class. Plus the ASG event is 65% more expensive than the TDB.

 

How can we grow the sport if the people who have the most power in the sport can't do what is best for the sport?

This isn't the first time an ASG sponsored race has been "stolen" off the original race organisers. I believe there was a similar such case with the Emperors/Edenvale Classic two or three years back which caused the split of the Emperors and Serengeti and I'm sure I remember reading something similar about the Jakaranda I think it was.

[Napalm]

Crumbs...

 

...besides the Timing, there was not much else I could find fault with the 2015 Tour..!

 

Boland does NOT exist as a province anymore - it is now Cape Winelands...!!!

 

Tour of Good Hope is a good (alternative) choice of name...

 

We cannot let Individuals try and "claim" ownership of a Stage Race..??

Especially Individuals who are in it for their own gain, put sponsorship money in their own pockets, and use Social Media as a means of criticism, extortion and personal vendettas...???

 

For crying out loud, wake up and see the Crooks without a Conscience for who they really are...!!!

They are not in it for the long-term benefit of the sport, they are in it for the short-term benefit of themselves.

 

I know what I'm talking about, I know the history. 

 

Let the Professionals take over, not the Palookas.

 

A couple of questions:

1) I'm assuming you don't make money from the events you organise?

2) Why is it immoral for individuals to make money from events, but companies can

3) Do you actually believe what you're saying, or are you just saying it cause your shop stocks ASG Products?

[ASG]

Can you give the distances for the respective stages

Hi there Aluman,

 

Event entries here: https://www.asgevents.co.za/pages/events/register/?id=229

 

Event and route descriptions here (for now): https://www.asgevents.co.za/tourofgoodhope/

 

Route profiles and exact distances to be posted soon.

 

Rgds

ag

[TALUS]

" .....The CTCTT is run like that, you employ great staff and pay them well and you get a world class product. ...."

 

Too soon Bro, too soon.

[ASG]

This isn't the first time an ASG sponsored race has been "stolen" off the original race organisers. I believe there was a similar such case with the Emperors/Edenvale Classic two or three years back which caused the split of the Emperors and Serengeti and I'm sure I remember reading something similar about the Jakaranda I think it was.

Hi Wez-O, nothing personal but seriously - how do you 'steal' a race? Why would an individual be entitled to continue with an event but not ASG?  Do you really have the facts or is this all based on 'where there is smoke there must be fire'?

 

Perhaps some background:

In the two cases you mentioned to club/individual contracts with ASG EVENTS and or other event organiser to take over the race on agreed terms and conditions because normally the race was 'dying' or is not profitable, has no sponsors or the individual/club does not have the capacity/will anymore'.  It is not necessarily an ASG sponsored race (although most are for a few years because they run at a loss) but a property owned and developed by ASG EVENTS (the ASG Events company who's business it is to own and present cycling events, find sponsors, market events, etc - not to sponsor events).  Then after significant investment (and it takes a few years to turn any event into a success) things change all of a sudden, agreements are forgotten or somehow an event was 'stolen'.  What should be really obvious is that if the races are hugely successful and or profitable to begin with, why go into an agreement with ASG or anybody else for that matter in the first place - to use ASG for a few years and then boot them??? 

 

All agreements had some financial compensation model agreed to it but if the race gets too big sometimes or potential starts to show (thanks to ASG!) someone gets greedy or spots an opportunity?????  In almost all these historical cases the end result has been a completely new race (new name, dates, etc) but for some reason some individuals choose to still blame ASG for something (and they seem to always find something no matter what cause of action we take)...I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion just super frustrating that those opinions are so often based on a really small amount of info and facts and almost always on pre-conceived attitudes.  This is where Social Media offers a forum to try and resolve matters (as opposed to using formal means and or legal processes if they feel they have a case based on agreements made in the past).  

 

Fortunately despite the attempts of some individuals to portray this 'event stealing' as a general problem with ASG events - we have more than 40 events on the annual calendar (owned and presented by ASG EVENTS) with approx 80,000 annual participants, many of these events significantly subsidised by ASG EVENTS, sponsored by ASG SPORT SOLUTIONS and/or other partners to ensure they don't get dropped off the calendar.  They all contribute significantly to several charities and cycling development initiatives.  Most of our races grow at a rate of more than 15% per annum (despite some comments stating entries are down - completely untrue or else all organisers will be running for the hills!)  The answer to reduced entry fees is significant sponsors - these 'issues' don't help sadly.

 

Finally, anyone can present a race - including individuals (obviously), corporates, etc.  Not sure how or where this became an issue?  Riders can choose to enter any race they want (based on cost, experience, etc) - we accept this and work with it!  Suffice to say that putting up a race is a little more expensive than most riders will ever now - this is also why individually organised and unsponsored races often don't make it.  Riders are spoiled for choice in SA with hundreds of races available to them - competition is fierce so we can only encourage riders out there to investigate their options and choose wisely (which most do).  If someone still feels the need to crucify a competing organiser to gain support for his own event then that is their choice.  For now we'll continue to do our best for those riders that do enjoy and enter our events and do our best to continue to improve those events and in the process grow them to a point where they can be viable.

[Blokman]

I was under the impression that Carinus did actually "own" the race or had the rights to it. Was it not organised under his stewardship for the last couple of years  ? Or does this dispute have it's origins in the Boland Cycling of yesteryear. Did he not take charge of an event that would possibly have died without him? I don't know ,I'm asking.

 

Edit: Posted before I saw ASG's reply to Wez. But still asking the question.

[Napalm]

Hi Wez-O, nothing personal but seriously - how do you 'steal' a race? Why would an individual be entitled to continue with an event but not ASG?

 

Glad you asked. If the person holds the Intellectual Property of the event, and does not transfer that to ASG, it's still his event, whether you grew it by 1% or a thousand. Starting another event in the exact same area at the same time and claiming it as the original is a complete and utter misrepresentation of the facts. And it's a complete dick move.

 

The TdB since it's inception has always grown year to year. So, it's not like it was a dying event, with you bunch of superheroes sweeping in to save the day.  Did you add to the event? Yes. Do you own the event? No chance.

 

So, significant sponsors brings reduced fees? Strange how your event is 65% MORE EXPENSIVE than the Tour de Boland.

[Skubarra]

 

Perhaps some background:

In the two cases you mentioned to club/individual contracts with ASG EVENTS and or other event organiser to take over the race on agreed terms and conditions because normally the race was 'dying' or is not profitable, has no sponsors or the individual/club does not have the capacity/will anymore'.  It is not necessarily an ASG sponsored race (although most are for a few years because they run at a loss) but a property owned and developed by ASG EVENTS (the ASG Events company who's business it is to own and present cycling events, find sponsors, market events, etc - not to sponsor events).  Then after significant investment (and it takes a few years to turn any event into a success) things change all of a sudden, agreements are forgotten or somehow an event was 'stolen'.  What should be really obvious is that if the races are hugely successful and or profitable to begin with, why go into an agreement with ASG or anybody else for that matter in the first place - to use ASG for a few years and then boot them??? 

 

 

I'm trying to understand, what was ASG & Carinus "relationship" in regards with the TdB?

 

Were you the organiser and Carinus the owner or equal partners or did Carinus cede his ownership or part of it to you when you became involved? 

 

If Carinus ceded the IP to you, why did you allow him to claim it back so easily?