Froome Braces for Doping questions

[Andrew Steer]

What I would have liked to have seen yesterday was Froome collapse in a heap gasping for air on the finish line after the huge effort he just put in.

 

What I would like to see today is Froome get dropped off the front on the Tourmalet as a result of the huge effort he did yesterday. Or at least see him have a few bad day during the three weeks. 

 

For me he is just no trying hard enough.

 

That's the thing with riding according to your ability and according to your numbers - Sky ride at a pace they know and train for. They control their accelerations and attacks. Even when Quintana rides away from Froome, he doesn't jump across and grab his wheel, he sticks to his plan, his cadence, his range. Going into the red is terminal, he doesn't, that's why he's consistent. It's not romantic, it's maybe not as exciting as Pantani and Lance dicing it out, but it is what it is 

[BLACKvoodoo]

Doping  ?   By a Cyclist  ?   IN THE TOUR    ??  

 

Oh wait... Sorry that's the norm.

[Baaisikilist]

Yiss, I hope Chris rides massive, fat, gaping holes into everyone AGAIN today...

Coz it's just lekker exciting to witness...

Vinny must be off the sous, coz he's looking lank kaak.

Conti must've put himself into too much of a home at the Giro to carry the form.

And Nairo's micro doses must be juuust a bit too micro, coz he was juust a little way back.

Porte's dosage is perfect...

[Andrew Steer]

For me, that is the clincher.

 

If someone is able to hammer on the front all day, then attack to win at the top, then do it again the next day (and the next, and the next) without having a single bad day, that will settle things in my mind that they're doped.

 

It's just not humanly possible.

 

Christophe Basson's autobiography was a serious eye-opener (we should all know who he was). He talks in detail about how his body degenerated to alarming levels during a grand stage, with a haemocrit hovering at around 30, badly anaemic, sick, listless, unable to climb simple hotel steps, etc. All the while, his doped up Festina teammates were doing amazing feats day after day and then were laughing and joking at the breakfast table, healthy pink cheeks, sparkly eyes, lots of energy. And these same guys showed lesser physical VO2Max and other results than Bassons during testing. In fact, Bassons had similar physical performance abilities to Hinault in testing. He should have been a grand tour GC contender, but most of the time he could barely keep up at the back of the bunch.

 

For me, in a perverse way, it's a lot more encouraging to see AC suffer on the first mountain stage. I feel like I'm watching a human, not a performance enhanced robot superhuman. Same with Nibali (yes I know I said a lot of things about Astana during the Giro). 

 

Now I'm expecting Thomas and Porte to have a few excellent days in the mountains, pulling Froome up into position. I've got no problem with what I saw yesterday by those guys. But then I fully expect them to pay for these efforts with bad days to follow.

 

If they don't then I'll have to start revising my attitude towards Sky.

 

I'm with you on that, balanced view... one day definitely doesn't make a whole tour! The burn at the stake brigade are a little to eager me thinks 

[mtbride]

That's the thing with riding according to your ability and according to your numbers - Sky ride at a pace they know and train for. They control their accelerations and attacks. Even when Quintana rides away from Froome, he doesn't jump across and grab his wheel, he sticks to his plan, his cadence, his range. Going into the red is terminal, he doesn't, that's why he's consistent. It's not romantic, it's maybe not as exciting as Pantani and Lance dicing it out, but it is what it is 

 

If that acceleration from Froome yesterday was not a jump, I'm not sure what is was ... maybe a leap, cause it sure broke everyone. Made the others look like they were standing still.

[Plentipotential]

Yesterday was impressive, but people need to maintain a little perspective here... 

 

Froome - won the last Tour de France he finished, he was favourite for a reason - this is him and his Teams main focus. Yes it's very Postal'esque, but having a main goal is not a bad idea? Building a team to achieve that goal is not a bad idea? The sports history is counting very much against him in my view.

 

Contador - Tried to do the Giro/Tour double - it's not looking good - also lost his best support rider two days ago, not to mention emotional strain etc from Basso's diagnosis - and on top of it claims to have had breathing problems.

 

Quintana - This is his second Tour de France, he's still competing for the best young rider comp, and he also peaked later on in his first Tour de France - he could well come back. This is the first mountain stage - there is a moer long way to go! I expect him to hurt Froome at least once or twice in the mountains

 

Nibali - defending champ, but champion by default if we're honest. When has he ever competed with these guys? Yes, correct, never!

 

Van Garderen - long been spoken of highly, but never really stepped up to the plate, is currently sitting second having done nothing spectacular. Looks like good old fashion progression to me.

 

Valverde, Purito - never been consistent - will no doubt have some great days in the mountains, but they've always just been outside shots for a podium etc.

 

The Tour if you ask me is going pretty much exactly as I would have predicted (okay a little hindsight helps too  ) - Yes Sky are strong, yes Porte is a super domestique (probably why somebody wants him as a team leader), but you can't just say a team is doping because they are strong?

 

Yes, don't bury your head in the sand, but at least evaluate and debate things on merit - this could be Postal #2, but it could also just be a great team who have put everything in place to ensure they achieve their goals.

 

I've long stopped having a horse in this race, but I believe in everyone being allowed a fair shout at least  

 

PS: Froome as a person is nothing like Lance as a person    

 

Exactly!

 

And if I may add, Sky as a team have not worked as hard as the other top contenders teams over the 1st week.

[Pure Savage]

I love watching Chris smash his rivals on the climbs!! What a spectacle! 

 

The peleton are all doing the same thing, be it clean or not. If you moaning like a little girl that has lost her Barbie about the guy in front is doing so well, get over it.

[Andrew Steer]

If that acceleration from Froome yesterday was not a jump, I'm not sure what is was ... maybe a leap, cause it sure broke everyone. Made the others look like they were standing still.

 

It's a measured acceleration yes, but on his terms. He will know how hard he can go and for how long... following someone else you are riding on their terms, at their speed.

 

Well, that's my view anyway... Sky are very calculated. It's when they get dragged out their comfort zones and forced to break from the script that the cracks can show   

[Andrew Steer]

Quite a lekker (and long) read if people want some further insight into this all...

 

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/07/can-performance-be-used-as-an-indicator-of-doping/

[Matt]

Some interesting stats from Dr Swart on Twitter:

[Thor Buttox]

What I would have liked to have seen yesterday was Froome collapse in a heap gasping for air on the finish line after the huge effort he just put in. What I would like to see today is Froome get dropped off the front on the Tourmalet as a result of the huge effort he did yesterday. Or at least see him have a few bad day during the three weeks.  For me he is just no trying hard enough.

If he does get dropped, I will take good odds on okes saying tonight that he is so confident with his doping that he must have let them take back some time... Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Come on UCI - just post their three week passports. Then we can all see whose HCt goes awry and whose doesn't

[mtbride]

I'll wait until le Monde says something ... then I'll be sceptical of the performance, just like he called out Pharmstrong all those years ago ...

[Andrew Steer]

If he does get dropped, I will take good odds on okes saying tonight that he is so confident with his doping that he must have let them take back some time... Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Come on UCI - just post their three week passports. Then we can all see whose HCt goes awry and whose doesn't

 

Now we talking   

[Pure Savage]

I don't even know why we area surprised, Chris has done one race before the tour, all the others have been hammering around Holand, Italy, France, US and Switzerland for two months before the tour.

 

If you aim to peak at the tour you will, if you try race for 4 months you going to come up short, about 4 minutes short.

[Ozzie NL]

Yes. The biological passport is used to check for jumps in hematocrit (volume percentage of red blood cells in blood) as well as unnatural levels in the ratio between old red blood cells and new red blood cells.

 My understanding is that blood doping is simply freezing blood and re infusing it before hard stages. This means all the rations are normal (I terns of % or ppm's) but you simply have more blood (as far as I know up to 0.5l) as the body will generate more blood after the transfusion back up to the normal volume. As such I thought blood doping was not detectable?

 

That different from your understanding

[Andrew Steer]

I don't even know why we area surprised, Chris has done one race before the tour, all the others have been hammering around Holand, Italy, France, US and Switzerland for two months before the tour.

 

If you aim to peak at the tour you will, if you try race for 4 months you going to come up short, about 4 minutes short.

 

But Lance did that too   

Chris should try the treble next year to get back some credibility