Froome Braces for Doping questions

[Pure Savage]

 

Come to think of it, I hope Froome pops one of these as he attacks up the climb today, just for all the haters. (One handed though, of course)

[Andrew Steer]

 My understanding is that blood doping is simply freezing blood and re infusing it before hard stages. This means all the rations are normal (I terns of % or ppm's) but you simply have more blood (as far as I know up to 0.5l) as the body will generate more blood after the transfusion back up to the normal volume. As such I thought blood doping was not detectable?

 

That different from your understanding

That's where the passport comes in...

 

http://sportsscientists.com/2011/03/the-biological-passport-legal-scientific-and-performance-views/

[Allrounder]

So because I can't play rugby like schalk or bakkies, they must be dopping?

[scotty]

Froome attack.jpg

 

Come to think of it, I hope Froome pops one of these as he attacks up the climb today, just for all the haters. (One handed though, of course)

Nah, some critics will still claim he is boring. 

[Thor Buttox]

My understanding is that blood doping is simply freezing blood and re infusing it before hard stages. This means all the rations are normal (I terns of % or ppm's) but you simply have more blood (as far as I know up to 0.5l) as the body will generate more blood after the transfusion back up to the normal volume. As such I thought blood doping was not detectable? That different from your understanding

The freezing causes damage to the cells and allows it to be detectable as a ratio of normal to abnormal cells, afaik

[Thor Buttox]

That's where the passport comes in... http://sportsscientists.com/2011/03/the-biological-passport-legal-scientific-and-performance-views/

You can always pass water, but you can't pass Porte

[JA-Q001]

Ok, just some retrospect for people to think about.

 

Last year, stage 10, mountain stage.

 

Winner - Nibali

Valverde was 20sec behind him on that climb and was the Movistar leader.

 

Overall Nibali beat Valverde by 7min25sec in the end.

 

Now, yesterday, stage 10.

 

Winner - Froome

Valverde was 2min1sec behind him and is a domestique this year, his leader was a minute behind the winner.

Nibali lost 4min25sec and was in total 2minutes behind Valverde.

 

Maybe the perspective in which people look at stuff should be changed, I see 2 guys that had the worst day of their tour, one thats finding legs and one that put everything he had into that stage, as he has done previously.

[Squier]

It's all about striking the balance somewhere between naivety and doping paranoia. I agree that it's not fair that every strong performance be met with a doping accusation but it's also completely understandable when eye brows are being raised when Froome (and his team) breaks the best climbers in the sport at will and so easily.

 

If it irritates you that people are suspicious I'd suggest you get a stress ball, because that is never going to go away. We'll just never know, (Until you see Froome on Oprah... heaven forbid) and we'll just have to live with it.

 

You can think what you want, but you can't always say what you want...except on thehub off course. That's why we're all here!

[Slowbee]

You can always pass water, but you can't pass Porte

:clap:

[Squier]

 My understanding is that blood doping is simply freezing blood and re infusing it before hard stages. This means all the rations are normal (I terns of % or ppm's) but you simply have more blood (as far as I know up to 0.5l) as the body will generate more blood after the transfusion back up to the normal volume. As such I thought blood doping was not detectable?

 

That different from your understanding

 

Nope, not freezing. Just storing at a cool temperature.

 

The idea behind it is that your red blood cell level (known as hematocrit) will decline over a three week Grand Tour as your body starts to fatigue. Red blood cells are the vessels used by the body to transport oxygen from your blood to your muscles. Therefore, your blood will become less and less oxygen rich, and as the rate in which your blood can feed oxygen to your muscles dictates the level of your performance, your performance will decrease over this period. By reinfusing the blood you are introducing new oxygen rich blood to your system and thereby increasing your red blood cell level and have more oxygen distributed to your muscles.

 

Go read Tyler Hamilton's book "The Secret Race". It's all in there. It's a brilliant read.

[Andrew Steer]

Nope, not freezing. Just storing at a cool temperature.

 

The idea behind it is that your red blood cell level (known as hematocrit) will decline over a three week Grand Tour as your body starts to fatigue. Red blood cells are the vessels used by the body to transport oxygen from your blood to your muscles. Therefore, your blood will become less and less oxygen rich, and as the rate in which your blood can feed oxygen to your muscles dictates the level of your performance, your performance will decrease over this period. By reinfusing the blood you are introducing new oxygen rich blood to your system and thereby increasing your red blood cell level and have more oxygen distributed to your muscles.

 

Go read Tyler Hamilton's book "The Secret Race". It's all in there. It's a brilliant read.

 

Blood transfusion gets picked up by the passport though... spike in red blood cells. Unless the buggers are doing micro blood transfusions now too 

[Gen]

Anyhow.. there is a new video out 2014 Vuelta http://www.chronoswatts.com/news/80/SkyLeaks2

 

 

If nothing it is interesting and informative. . Would be great for us viewers to be able to see data like this on all riders. Gives us a real insight into how powerful they really are.

[GaryvdM]

 My understanding is that blood doping is simply freezing blood and re infusing it before hard stages. This means all the rations are normal (I terns of % or ppm's) but you simply have more blood (as far as I know up to 0.5l) as the body will generate more blood after the transfusion back up to the normal volume. As such I thought blood doping was not detectable?

 

That different from your understanding

 

This en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping#Blood_Transfusion describes the process of separating the red blood cells (RBC) from the plasma elements with a centrifuge, and then immediately reinfuseing the plasma. When the RBC are infused, you get an immediately high hematocrit.

 

In The Secret Race by Tyler Hamilton, he never described doing separation, so I assume they did not. I think what happens is that after the transfusion of non separated blood, the  hematocrit will initially be unchanged, with only the total volume of the blood increased, but then the body naturally corrects the volume of the blood by reducing the amount of plasma, there by increasing the hematocrit.

 

The above is my speculation. I have nothing to back this up. I'll try look for research that does.

 

After the transfusion BM (bone marrow?) simulation decreases, reducing the percentage of reticulocyte (immature red blood cells.) I have just learnt that this is easily masked by a microdose of EPO [Source]

[SAGecko]

Yesterday was impressive, but people need to maintain a little perspective here... 

 

Froome - won the last Tour de France he finished, he was favourite for a reason - this is him and his Teams main focus. Yes it's very Postal'esque, but having a main goal is not a bad idea? Building a team to achieve that goal is not a bad idea? The sports history is counting very much against him in my view.

 

Contador - Tried to do the Giro/Tour double - it's not looking good - also lost his best support rider two days ago, not to mention emotional strain etc from Basso's diagnosis - and on top of it claims to have had breathing problems.

 

Quintana - This is his second Tour de France, he's still competing for the best young rider comp, and he also peaked later on in his first Tour de France - he could well come back. This is the first mountain stage - there is a moer long way to go! I expect him to hurt Froome at least once or twice in the mountains

 

Nibali - defending champ, but champion by default if we're honest. When has he ever competed with these guys? Yes, correct, never!

 

Van Garderen - long been spoken of highly, but never really stepped up to the plate, is currently sitting second having done nothing spectacular. Looks like good old fashion progression to me.

 

Valverde, Purito - never been consistent - will no doubt have some great days in the mountains, but they've always just been outside shots for a podium etc.

 

The Tour if you ask me is going pretty much exactly as I would have predicted (okay a little hindsight helps too  ) - Yes Sky are strong, yes Porte is a super domestique (probably why somebody wants him as a team leader), but you can't just say a team is doping because they are strong?

 

Yes, don't bury your head in the sand, but at least evaluate and debate things on merit - this could be Postal #2, but it could also just be a great team who have put everything in place to ensure they achieve their goals.

 

I've long stopped having a horse in this race, but I believe in everyone being allowed a fair shout at least  

 

PS: Froome as a person is nothing like Lance as a person    

 

Yes, absolutely this Andrew. We are of one mind here.

 

And you've saved me from hacking out a long and windy rebuttal with this concise, eloquent piece.

[SAGecko]

I am just not naïve.

 

And does your professed lack of naivete imply, as a consequence, that Froome is guilty of doping?

[Andrew Steer]

Yes, absolutely this Andrew. We are of one mind here.

 

And you've saved me from hacking out a long and windy rebuttal with this concise, eloquent piece.

It's a pleasure... you owe me an Erdinger Kristal one day