Epicbikeshop Cape Town . .VAT refund missing!

[Bike Mob]

After wading through tons of speculation and lynching and some supportive posts I will give my perspective on the OP's dilemma:

 

He got a great deal on a great bike, an Infinito CV with Carbon Athena 11sp,  I spent countless hours advising and deliberating by email and in person with Americo on choosing a bike, the correct fit and size and colour. after hours, late at night, you name it I did it. I bent over backwards to accomodate him on the sale. He paid less then the retail price by about R1000, got a free set of Xpresso 8 Carbon pedals worth over 2K and got upgraded on the wheelset from a supplied Vento G3 to the Zonda Wheels, an upgraded Fizik Arione Saddle and upgraded to 25c Vredestein tires. All in all value of about or more then the VAT he is complaining about not recieving.

 

We spoke about a VAT return at the airport, I said I would provide as much as I could on paper but was not aware of the complete list of requirements. My Invoice does not state Tax Invoice or show a VAT number.

 

I am not VAT registered but my 2nd business (to answer another post, in Import and distribution) is legally seperate and a PTY Ltd - Since I have only recently aquired the company docs, the VAT process is arduous - I am not a lawyer and have employed someone to do this for me. I wait.

 

Epic Bike Shop as it stands is now under new management, the 10 year old cc has not been dissolved and I could not take that over and so I started up as a Sole Proprietor. My accountant will advise when its required to register this for VAT or change the entity type.

 

I have advised Americo on more than 5 occasions that this will take a while and I will still do my best to provide him with an invoice from the Vat registered entity that he can go claim his money back.

 

I pay my VAT to my suppliers, mark up ex VAT and then include VAT that will always be paid by the consumer - its not possible to live in a "VAT FREE ZONE" like everybody thinks - If the retailer is not VAT registered then they cannot claim against their input VAT. All prices paid include VAT. I am not making VAT my profit. I operate a small business with very reasonable pricing and exceptional expertise.

 

I will always do my utmost to help anyone. Even when its a last minute im leaving for a race repair, or lending our my personal equipment which is mostly boutique, custom or high end. That you will rarely find elsewhere.

 

A couple of weeks back Americo enquired about a warranty for a crack below his downtube. I have seen a few paint cracks in my days with warranty claims so its not impossible under the BB area. I entertained it an requested pictures. The photographs tell a plain story of a bike that was crushed in a bike rack, the clamp on the angle of the downtube below the bottle cage and above the BB in the traditional area for a rack to hold. The clamp rubber grip outline still visible. Americo still insisted that he would try for a warranty in Italy. A blame shift trait now plain to me that he will see in everything.

 

I emailed Americo personally at the outset of this thread, and have not commented all day as I have been on my feet serving customers that require urgent work, for K2C and alone in store. nonetheless I hope this explains where the OP is coming from and what he wants to do.

 

This he said, she said mud slinging will do no good - the OP is trying to avoid taxation completely to make this an even better deal than he already got, so he would essentially be breaking the law not me.

 

Following all of this for 4 pages and being called a liar and cheat has not done much for my willingness to assist any further than I have done already.

 

PS. The 2015 Infinito CV Athena is listed at 3300 GBP which makes it about R10000 cheaper to buy in South Africa.

[KingTJ]

After wading through tons of speculation and lynching and some supportive posts I will give my perspective on the OP's dilemma:

 

He got a great deal on a great bike, an Infinito CV with Carbon Athena 11sp,  I spent countless hours advising and deliberating by email and in person with Americo on choosing a bike, the correct fit and size and colour. after hours, late at night, you name it I did it. I bent over backwards to accomodate him on the sale. He paid less then the retail price by about R1000, got a free set of Xpresso 8 Carbon pedals worth over 2K and got upgraded on the wheelset from a supplied Vento G3 to the Zonda Wheels, an upgraded Fizik Arione Saddle and upgraded to 25c Vredestein tires. All in all value of about or more then the VAT he is complaining about not recieving.

 

We spoke about a VAT return at the airport, I said I would provide as much as I could on paper but was not aware of the complete list of requirements. My Invoice does not state Tax Invoice or show a VAT number.

 

I am not VAT registered but my 2nd business (to answer another post, in Import and distribution) is legally seperate and a PTY Ltd - Since I have only recently aquired the company docs, the VAT process is arduous - I am not a lawyer and have employed someone to do this for me. I wait.

 

Epic Bike Shop as it stands is now under new management, the 10 year old cc has not been dissolved and I could not take that over and so I started up as a Sole Proprietor. My accountant will advise when its required to register this for VAT or change the entity type.

 

I have advised Americo on more than 5 occasions that this will take a while and I will still do my best to provide him with an invoice from the Vat registered entity that he can go claim his money back.

 

I pay my VAT to my suppliers, mark up ex VAT and then include VAT that will always be paid by the consumer - its not possible to live in a "VAT FREE ZONE" like everybody thinks - If the retailer is not VAT registered then they cannot claim against their input VAT. All prices paid include VAT. I am not making VAT my profit. I operate a small business with very reasonable pricing and exceptional expertise.

 

I will always do my utmost to help anyone. Even when its a last minute im leaving for a race repair, or lending our my personal equipment which is mostly boutique, custom or high end. That you will rarely find elsewhere.

 

A couple of weeks back Americo enquired about a warranty for a crack below his downtube. I have seen a few paint cracks in my days with warranty claims so its not impossible under the BB area. I entertained it an requested pictures. The photographs tell a plain story of a bike that was crushed in a bike rack, the clamp on the angle of the downtube below the bottle cage and above the BB in the traditional area for a rack to hold. The clamp rubber grip outline still visible. Americo still insisted that he would try for a warranty in Italy. A blame shift trait now plain to me that he will see in everything.

 

I emailed Americo personally at the outset of this thread, and have not commented all day as I have been on my feet serving customers that require urgent work, for K2C and alone in store. nonetheless I hope this explains where the OP is coming from and what he wants to do.

 

This he said, she said mud slinging will do no good - the OP is trying to avoid taxation completely to make this an even better deal than he already got, so he would essentially be breaking the law not me.

 

Following all of this for 4 pages and being called a liar and cheat has not done much for my willingness to assist any further than I have done already.

 

PS. The 2015 Infinito CV Athena is listed at 3300 GBP which makes it about R10000 cheaper to buy in South Africa.

 

Kudos for coming ot and stating your side of the story without getting emotional....

 

Nb. You should have done this last night....then friday madness would have started with a cracker:p

[Skylark]

Zilla you should have just said from the outset of this thread that an invoice suitable for a tourist vat refund was not promised to the op and just avoided all the mud slinging?

Edited September 18, 2015 by Skylark

[Edge_Design]

Purely for a bit of clarity - claiming VAT back in SA and paying in his home country are 2 separate transactions. Even though he didn't claim it back in SA, he was actually probably still liable for it in his home country so if he followed the law then he would have been out of pocket for a fairly substantial amount of money after paying VAT in 2 countries.

[Icycling]

Regardless of whether your Invoice states the VAT or not you are paying VAT as everything includes VAT. If you are not VAT registered you cannot simply buy all your products EX VAT and then sell Ex VAT.

 

Being VAT registered simply means you may claim the input VAT against your Ouput VAT.

 

ROCK has an excellent point though, did you pay VAT in your home country or not, and was the SA 14% VAT you paid less than your home country VAT at 22%, If you are claiming VAT from SA but not paying it in your country then that is illegal.

Here is an example of what need to be on the invoice Note the Douane Nederland stamp and the RSA customs stamp when bring items accorss the border as luggage. I am not at liberty to show the entire invoice but the relevant Info is shown.

 

[Americo]

After wading through tons of speculation and lynching and some supportive posts I will give my perspective on the OP's dilemma:

 

He got a great deal on a great bike, an Infinito CV with Carbon Athena 11sp, I spent countless hours advising and deliberating by email and in person with Americo on choosing a bike, the correct fit and size and colour. after hours, late at night, you name it I did it. I bent over backwards to accomodate him on the sale. He paid less then the retail price by about R1000, got a free set of Xpresso 8 Carbon pedals worth over 2K and got upgraded on the wheelset from a supplied Vento G3 to the Zonda Wheels, an upgraded Fizik Arione Saddle and upgraded to 25c Vredestein tires. All in all value of about or more then the VAT he is complaining about not recieving.

 

We spoke about a VAT return at the airport, I said I would provide as much as I could on paper but was not aware of the complete list of requirements. My Invoice does not state Tax Invoice or show a VAT number.

 

I am not VAT registered but my 2nd business (to answer another post, in Import and distribution) is legally seperate and a PTY Ltd - Since I have only recently aquired the company docs, the VAT process is arduous - I am not a lawyer and have employed someone to do this for me. I wait.

 

Epic Bike Shop as it stands is now under new management, the 10 year old cc has not been dissolved and I could not take that over and so I started up as a Sole Proprietor. My accountant will advise when its required to register this for VAT or change the entity type.

 

I have advised Americo on more than 5 occasions that this will take a while and I will still do my best to provide him with an invoice from the Vat registered entity that he can go claim his money back.

 

I pay my VAT to my suppliers, mark up ex VAT and then include VAT that will always be paid by the consumer - its not possible to live in a "VAT FREE ZONE" like everybody thinks - If the retailer is not VAT registered then they cannot claim against their input VAT. All prices paid include VAT. I am not making VAT my profit. I operate a small business with very reasonable pricing and exceptional expertise.

 

I will always do my utmost to help anyone. Even when its a last minute im leaving for a race repair, or lending our my personal equipment which is mostly boutique, custom or high end. That you will rarely find elsewhere.

 

A couple of weeks back Americo enquired about a warranty for a crack below his downtube. I have seen a few paint cracks in my days with warranty claims so its not impossible under the BB area. I entertained it an requested pictures. The photographs tell a plain story of a bike that was crushed in a bike rack, the clamp on the angle of the downtube below the bottle cage and above the BB in the traditional area for a rack to hold. The clamp rubber grip outline still visible. Americo still insisted that he would try for a warranty in Italy. A blame shift trait now plain to me that he will see in everything.

 

I emailed Americo personally at the outset of this thread, and have not commented all day as I have been on my feet serving customers that require urgent work, for K2C and alone in store. nonetheless I hope this explains where the OP is coming from and what he wants to do.

 

This he said, she said mud slinging will do no good - the OP is trying to avoid taxation completely to make this an even better deal than he already got, so he would essentially be breaking the law not me.

 

Following all of this for 4 pages and being called a liar and cheat has not done much for my willingness to assist any further than I have done already.

 

PS. The 2015 Infinito CV Athena is listed at 3300 GBP which makes it about R10000 cheaper to buy in South Africa.

Zilla you're very good at turning things around and for sure a good seller and a great writer.

 

When I bought my bike you were making it look that claiming the VAT I would get a great deal and now you are saying that it's actually not worth it to get it back because of the difference in the country taxation. Do you tell this to the foreigners who buy things at your shop? and again how come you wrote me on the emails that you were sure I would get it back when you knew it wouldn't happen?

 

Also what about the email of a few days ago threatening me to delete the topic otherwise you won't give me back the VAT?that's how you do business?

 

You're finally admitting that your business doesn't have a VAT,so the last invoice I requested for the TAX refund office is actually an invoice with a fake VAT on it?With a VAT on it that does't belong to epicbikeshop. How I'm the one here trying to make a profit and breaking the law? why din't you just tell me that I wasn't going to get the VAT when I asked you in the beginning?

 

Also stop to assume things and instead of trying to make yourself look good,apologize for your mistake (you still didn't do it) and run your business in a honest way making the customers aware that you don't have a VAT.

 

Maybe you didn't realize it yet but if we're here it's just because you weren't clear and honest. I'm NOT complaining about the price of the bike,I never did and I was well aware I would pay way less in Italy but still decided to buy it in Cape Town. The point of this topic is that you're using an invalid VAT and not making your customers aware of it.

 

Here are some of the emails we exchanged so it's clear for all of you how it went

 

- His answer on one of the first emails regarding the VAT where he says I can claim the VAT

 

http://i58.tinypic.com/apbri8.png

 

Few days before leaving I wanted to make sure everything was in order so I sent him another email and this is what he replied

 

http://i62.tinypic.com/jfwzeh.png

 

http://i57.tinypic.com/2zemfc4.png

 

 

 

The email once I got the notification from the tax refund about the Fake VAT,as you can all see he says that he is waiting for a new VAT

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/j7volw.png

 

 

Right now he is saying that he will apply when it's time.

 

"Epic Bike Shop as it stands is now under new management, the 10 year old cc has not been dissolved and I could not take that over and so I started up as a Sole Proprietor. My accountant will advise when its required to register this for VAT or change the entity type "

 

 

 

the email of few days ago when he first saw the topic,trying to change the topic and not focusing on the real matter.

 

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ldw1t0.png

 

Let's move forward with this and inform the local authorities with what happened to see who's breaking the law. As you can all see this guy it's for sure a good seller but he also lies a lot! I know he has a lot of friends on this forum trying to defend and support him but open your eyes,he deliberately lied on the VAT to make a sale.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Americo

[Skylark]

I don't think Zilla has handled this well, why not just come clean and apologise to the op for the mistake and move on?

 

Doesn't look good to me that Zilla wants to hide this issue from the public eyes, then comes at the end of it all mud slinging and threatening the op and still doesn't address the basic issue of why a vat invoice was promised and not delivered?

 

He clearly knows what the meaning of a vat invoice is as he stated he has a vat registered import/import Co so must fully understand the implications when a "vat invoice" is a requirement to complete a transaction.

 

The op did his part in terms of the sale agreement, Zilla took his money, now when it comes time to use the vat invoice as promised Zilla wants to run around in circles avoiding the issue and saying what a knob the op is. Lol

[Americo]

Just noticed this so I had to post it!

 

He says :

 

We spoke about a VAT return at the airport, I said I would provide as much as I could on paper but was not aware of the complete list of requirements. My Invoice does not state Tax Invoice or show a VAT number.

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/fcuwk1.png

 

This is part of the invoice,I deleted the parts with confidential information as you can all see VAT and Tax Invoice are on it. Double lie again Zilla? 

[TTBiker]

the problem here seems to be missed - a foreigner bought an item under the impression that he could have claimed the vat back when he left the country. He was supplied with a Tax Invoice with an invalid tax number. He could not claim the vat paid back. What he did upon entering Italy and the retail price in Europe is irrelevant in this post - he merely stated his problem about the invalid tax invoice number.

[Shebeen]

Is there a chance that, due to change of ownership, the Vat# was valid at time of purchase but then had been deregistered by the time the op was at customs?

[Longbarn Killer]

The invoice presented by Americo clearly shows the words "Tax Invoice" and shows a VAT number. If the business is not registered for VAT and is issuing such invoices, there is a contravention right there.

 

If the VAT is specified on the invoice, Americo has a valid argument. In my days as a SARS auditor, we would have done one of three things. If we could prove fraud, prosecuted the owner. Made the seller refund the VAT to the purchaser or assessed the seller and made him pay the VAT to SARS.

 

Americo please post the rest of the invoice. I would love to see if there was a separate charge for VAT.

[King_Crispy]

After wading through tons of speculation and lynching and some supportive posts I will give my perspective on the OP's dilemma:

 

He got a great deal on a great bike, an Infinito CV with Carbon Athena 11sp,  I spent countless hours advising and deliberating by email and in person with Americo on choosing a bike, the correct fit and size and colour. after hours, late at night, you name it I did it. I bent over backwards to accomodate him on the sale. He paid less then the retail price by about R1000, got a free set of Xpresso 8 Carbon pedals worth over 2K and got upgraded on the wheelset from a supplied Vento G3 to the Zonda Wheels, an upgraded Fizik Arione Saddle and upgraded to 25c Vredestein tires. All in all value of about or more then the VAT he is complaining about not recieving.

 

We spoke about a VAT return at the airport, I said I would provide as much as I could on paper but was not aware of the complete list of requirements. My Invoice does not state Tax Invoice or show a VAT number.

 

I am not VAT registered but my 2nd business (to answer another post, in Import and distribution) is legally seperate and a PTY Ltd - Since I have only recently aquired the company docs, the VAT process is arduous - I am not a lawyer and have employed someone to do this for me. I wait.

 

Epic Bike Shop as it stands is now under new management, the 10 year old cc has not been dissolved and I could not take that over and so I started up as a Sole Proprietor. My accountant will advise when its required to register this for VAT or change the entity type.

 

I have advised Americo on more than 5 occasions that this will take a while and I will still do my best to provide him with an invoice from the Vat registered entity that he can go claim his money back.

 

I pay my VAT to my suppliers, mark up ex VAT and then include VAT that will always be paid by the consumer - its not possible to live in a "VAT FREE ZONE" like everybody thinks - If the retailer is not VAT registered then they cannot claim against their input VAT. All prices paid include VAT. I am not making VAT my profit. I operate a small business with very reasonable pricing and exceptional expertise.

 

I will always do my utmost to help anyone. Even when its a last minute im leaving for a race repair, or lending our my personal equipment which is mostly boutique, custom or high end. That you will rarely find elsewhere.

 

A couple of weeks back Americo enquired about a warranty for a crack below his downtube. I have seen a few paint cracks in my days with warranty claims so its not impossible under the BB area. I entertained it an requested pictures. The photographs tell a plain story of a bike that was crushed in a bike rack, the clamp on the angle of the downtube below the bottle cage and above the BB in the traditional area for a rack to hold. The clamp rubber grip outline still visible. Americo still insisted that he would try for a warranty in Italy. A blame shift trait now plain to me that he will see in everything.

 

I emailed Americo personally at the outset of this thread, and have not commented all day as I have been on my feet serving customers that require urgent work, for K2C and alone in store. nonetheless I hope this explains where the OP is coming from and what he wants to do.

 

This he said, she said mud slinging will do no good - the OP is trying to avoid taxation completely to make this an even better deal than he already got, so he would essentially be breaking the law not me.

 

Following all of this for 4 pages and being called a liar and cheat has not done much for my willingness to assist any further than I have done already.

 

PS. The 2015 Infinito CV Athena is listed at 3300 GBP which makes it about R10000 cheaper to buy in South Africa.

 

You could potentially be in huge amount of *** with this here VAT "fraud" escapade. Pretty damning when your emails are thrown back at you

Edited September 21, 2015 by King_Crispy

[Nimby]

PR disaster!!

[Maniax]

Schucks. This is not going to end well.

 

In business I was taught to always operate on three principles

1. Say what you do

2. Do what you say

3. Be able to prove it.

 

When either of these are not able to or contradictes in any way, where will be problems.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Maniax

[Longbarn Killer]

There is a separate charge for VAT on the invoice. Epic has charged VAT, but is not registered yet as a VAT vendor.

 

I understand that the shop is in the process of registration, but when and how was that VAT going to be paid to SARS. Whose VAT number appears on the invoice?

 

The Refund Administrator will not refund a foreigner his VAT unless they know the VAT was paid on the other side. I guess they validated the numbers and saw the one on the invoice was not valid and therefore denied the claim.

[maakaplan]

pay the man................... That was the deal. As if the bokke are not tarnishing our country's name enough.