Discovery Health - Vitality & Team Vitality plus everything else you need to know

[nathrix]

Thing is this, BH. It is NOT being sold by Discovery. Not at all. It's an Apple device, sold by Apple. 

 

DV is SUBSIDISING it, if people decide they want one, based on their activity. It is not Discovery's fault that the T's and C's aren't being read, or that people think "OOOOH! FREE WATCH!" 

 

Essentially, it's like this. If you want a watch, enter into a 2 year 0% interest arrangement (which is the basis for the agreement)

 

Discovery offers you the POTENTIAL to pay nothing, IF you meet al their goals.

 

Whose fault is it?

 

But there's some hurdles and trickery involved in that Discovery increases the points goal when individuals actually achieve the weekly goals. Members who does not exercise regularly gets the most benefit as their heart rate hit 90% just by dusting off their bikes for a couple of minutes and lifting a leg over it ones or twice a week to achieve their low points goal.

[BarHugger]

Thing is this, BH. It is NOT being sold by Discovery. Not at all. It's an Apple device, sold by Apple. 

 

DV is SUBSIDISING it, if people decide they want one, based on their activity. It is not Discovery's fault that the T's and C's aren't being read, or that people think "OOOOH! FREE WATCH!" 

 

Essentially, it's like this. If you want a watch, enter into a 2 year 0% interest arrangement (which is the basis for the agreement)

 

Discovery offers you the POTENTIAL to pay nothing, IF you meet al their goals.

 

Whose fault is it?

And when you do.....who pays Apple for the device.....Discovery....how do you get out of it......move the goalposts whilst the okes are skopping for the pale.......

[BarHugger]

BH, I don't think anyone is arguing the non merits of the new heart rate zones. The points do not make much sense, but based on the fact that it's a benefit anyone could willingly subscribe to, they have set some limits that are challenging rather than practically non existant. The crew here are suggesting there are ways to adapt your training so that you can achieve the somewhat weird requirements to keep your training segmented to get these training targets, but if anyone is serious about their training they will have more than enough opportunity to fit in at least 3 hardish 30 min efforts somewhere in the week along with 3 other coffee\smoothie stops to make up the max of 1200 weekly points.

 

You have your own opinion but no matter how much evidence is placed before you, you seem determined not to shift the level of disdain you publically want to shower on the Active Rewards system. What is your motivation for this btw?

Why would I need any motivation......there are Pro athletes that won't make the 1200 goal......it really is all about the watch.....quite laughable too seeing how Discovery realised......ooooooh k@k that is a lot of watches to pay for....oh yes I remember my motivation now.......I am wearing Apple watches like arm warmers this winter.......15 per arm......

[Andrew Steer]

On the Apple watch reliability: Two hour squash session on Friday... average heart rate of 80bpm - Man this Vitality has made me fit 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

But there's some hurdles and trickery involved in that Discovery increases the points goal when individuals actually achieve the weekly goals. Members who does not exercise regularly gets the most benefit as their heart rate hit 90% just by dusting off their bikes for a couple of minutes and lifting a leg over it ones or twice a week to achieve their low points goal.

yeah, because if you hit them they're probably too easy, or they want to push you harder - so they increase them. No trickery - it's been  like that since the beginning.

 

But in the case above, those who hit it by just exercising once will still have their points requirement increase each week. Yes, I haven't increased on my side, but that's my fault. If I hadn't missed 2 weeks worth of goals, then I'd still be up at 700 like you are. 

[carbon29er]

Problem is this:

for an active and fit individual

 

 

Forgive me.....I simply highlighted two brilliant sentences out of what is a brilliant post.....but some rubbers here can do a race for 2h30 at 80 % and boast about it here on a Monday......what you said here is really what it boils down to.....some here want a full thesis because they are too lazy to do their own research.......in the end of the day your post lays out very plainly as to where the system is failing.....is it safe to say that the Hubbers who reach their gaols so easily are ......fat and unfit LOL ​I just threw that in there to make this Monday feel like Friday..........

 

 

Surely the penny is going to drop sooner or later.

 

If you want free stuff there is always a price. If Disco want you to train at 80% for 30 minutes 4 times a week in future and you don't want to the don't. I don't think they really care.

 

If you don't want to adapt your recording or your workouts to get a R5k watch or R65 worth of free coffee a week then don't. They want to change the behaviour of their customers and are paying you to do it.  It's voluntary.

 

When will this sink in?

[Li Mu Bai]

HIIT intervals count for nothing over the whole workout if warm up and cool down phases are included.

You can do 80% if the data you submit to discovery only includes your time above 80% - all their algorithm is interested in is the average. Thus, the result is more manipulation of workouts, exactly what they are trying to avoid.

And heaven help you if you beat much lower than the 220-age nonsense.

[Tubehunter]

Why would I need any motivation......there are Pro athletes that won't make the 1200 goal......it really is all about the watch.....quite laughable too seeing how Discovery realised......ooooooh k@k that is a lot of watches to pay for....oh yes I remember my motivation now.......I am wearing Apple watches like arm warmers this winter.......15 per arm......

 

If you took the watch and don't want to pay, segment your training. Yes, it's a schlep, but if you are that determined not to pay than just get on with it. Do your 2 plus hour ride, but somewhere in that session give it a little extra for 30 minutes and segment the training by stopping and resetting the training session before and after you do that interval. Voila, 300 points for that piece instead of 100 points for the total workout. You still get all the data for your other logging activities and Disco give you their points.

[Frosty]

I have previously followed an 8-week (power) training plan developed by Hunter Allen (HA), and plan to use it again in the future. It certainly has helped raise my level to a point where I am happy with the balance of time spent training and the output on the bike.

 

For the sake of this thread, let’s forget the Power zones as the VAR program uses HR data only, and while the goal is to train according to power with HR as a side item. My lactate threshold heart rate is 166bpm (lab tested, VO2max test) and 167bpm (doing the 20-min FTP test), so I guess bothmethods are good enough for this point I’m trying to make.

 

The zones, according to HA’s program is as follows:

 

 

Notes:

·         Zone 5b and C are not applicable for HR zones, and have been left out of the table above;

·         % LTHR is based on VO2max value or the FTP test (whichever is higher);

·         DiscoMAX zones are calculated using 200-age * % LTHR for each zone.

 

Before I start, my heart rate is naturally high when exercising.

·         Sitting HR is 60bpm (taken after 5 minutes after sitting down, using the blood pressure cuff);

·         Resting HR is 46bpm, taken after waking up, having a pee then returning to bed for 5 minutes.

 

I have been cycling for 15 years, racing in Vet’s category for a few years, AL/BL for a few years while the rest of the years were spent just riding a bike. I’ve been physically active since I was old enough to stand on my own two feet, and have played a number of other sports.

 

Now, back to the topic… during the 8-week training plan there are days described as:

·         Rest days (no riding – just couch time. Feet up)

·         Active recovery days (all in Z1 – duration doesn’t matter for the purpose of this report);

·         Endurance rides (every weekend with up to 30 minutes in Tempo on a few of the weekends, and some high cadence sprints);

·         Tempo rides (Z3) during the week (at least once, but occasionally twice with some Neuromuscular Power efforts thrown into the Tempo ride. These rides are 75-90 minutes long.

·         The other efforts are Z4, and the three Z5 zones, but all less 20 minutes for the entire day’s session.

·         Recovery weeks are every 4^th week, with an FTP test at the end of the 8^th week. During that week, it’s hard to meet the 1200 points but is not impossible (just needs to careful planning). The temptation to ride a bit harder is there and sometimes the easy sessions are not easy enough. Likewise, the really hard sessions are probably not hard enough either – but there’s a reason for that.

 

During these workouts, the Power Zone and HR Zone are the same, i.e. Tempo (Power = Z3, and HR is also Z3). My zone 3 (HR) is 84-94% of LTHR, while the DiscoMAX equivalent is 79-88%. Sure, the tempo efforts are not done more than twice per week, but there are other workouts that shoot my HR through the roof, and I often end up with an average above 70% of DiscoMAX, sometimes above 80% if I feel a bit fatigued (life happens, and kids/wife/work have an affect).

 

Ever since I created a second GC/Strava account, I was able to pick and choose what to send to Vitality, by cropping the ride to suit. Now it doesn’t matter, as the goal is much lower than what I need and can achieve it in two workouts, plus the visit to collect my reward from the gym. Some of my workouts are done on the “Watt Bike” are the gym, and others using my CycleOps trainer, so I do have a need for a gym membership other than to collect smoothies.

 

I am by no means an expert on this matter, and have no qualification. But I do read (a lot) on the subject, experiment with my own training and know what can work for me. I could get better, by employing the services of a coach, and also giving up other parts of my life – but I don’t want to. I’m quite happy with the level I’m at and have nothing to prove to anyone, not even myself.

[Eugene Brown]

I don't have an Apple watch, don't use the App, and don't think I ever will. I'm not an Apple fan, and don't think I will become one easily HOWEVER I do exercise fairly regularly, and actually enjoy it! I've maxed out my fitness points for Vitality for the year, and my missus is halfway already, so there's no real incentive to carry on exercising if we were chasing points towards a watch payment subsidy, for example..

I think the key difference for us is that the time with my wife on the weekends on the bike, and my buddies in the week, are really special to me, and I actually go into a sort of withdrawal if sickness/travel/whatever prevent my sessions.

Surely that should be Discovery's long-term goal, instead of getting their customer base irate!

The more you enjoy something with more and more like-minded people, the more you will do it, and your circle of like-minded mates will also grow. Or at least that's the way it's worked for me. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Why would I need any motivation......there are Pro athletes that won't make the 1200 goal......it really is all about the watch.....quite laughable too seeing how Discovery realised......ooooooh k@k that is a lot of watches to pay for....oh yes I remember my motivation now.......I am wearing Apple watches like arm warmers this winter.......15 per arm......

why do you continually come back to the assumption that Disco are worried about paying for the watch, and that's why they increased the figures? They were LAUGHABLY simple to get in the first iteration, and they remain far easier to get to when compared to last year's points allocations. 

 

I agree that in SOME cases the 80% mark may be unachievable, but if you tell me that people can't hit 70% for 30 minutes and also be a pro athlete... 

 

I also agree that the targets should be better tiered in order to allow for longer efforts at lower HR's. BUT - that does not discount how easy it is to get 1,200 points at the moment. 

[Andrew Steer]

why do you continually come back to the assumption that Disco are worried about paying for the watch, and that's why they increased the figures? They were LAUGHABLY simple to get in the first iteration, and they remain far easier to get to when compared to last year's points allocations. 

 

I agree that in SOME cases the 80% mark may be unachievable, but if you tell me that people can't hit 70% for 30 minutes and also be a pro athlete... 

 

I also agree that the targets should be better tiered in order to allow for longer efforts at lower HR's. BUT - that does not discount how easy it is to get 1,200 points at the moment. 

 

You hitting 1200 points a week at the moment? I'm impressed...

 

I do though guarantee you won't hit it with my Apple watch... 21km run - 100points, 14km run - 100 points, two hours of squash - 100points, if I'm lucky.

 

This is the device they supplied to me, to measure my training and it simply can't regularly perform that function. And their service desk is so busy at the moment, if you don't have oodles of spare time to chase it all up, you end up just laughing it off - Yip, that 45km running week isn't enough for the fitness actuaries at Disco... 

[BarHugger]

why do you continually come back to the assumption that Disco are worried about paying for the watch, and that's why they increased the figures? They were LAUGHABLY simple to get in the first iteration, and they remain far easier to get to when compared to last year's points allocations. 

 

I agree that in SOME cases the 80% mark may be unachievable, but if you tell me that people can't hit 70% for 30 minutes and also be a pro athlete... 

 

I also agree that the targets should be better tiered in order to allow for longer efforts at lower HR's. BUT - that does not discount how easy it is to get 1,200 points at the moment. 

Myles....be fair....I have come back to it twice....reason being that is exactly what it looks like from an outsiders perspective.....but Myles.....it would help you understand average heart rate percentages a bit better......I highlighted the one sentence for you......now Li Mu explained it quite beautifully by explaining warm up and cool down.....pro athletes don't train for 30 minutes at a time.....most avid cyclists don't train for that time period either....they train for more extended periods....some athletes have high revving engines and others lower revving engines.....now Tubehunter ( an no I didn't opt for the Vaseline heartbeat machine) says one should go a little harder for 30 minutes and voila.....not so easy if you have a proper warm up and cool down segment within your session.......it really boils down to an average and it's an average over a certain time period which will be different to each and every individual......now Discovery claim they are using the information as received from the American  Heart Association.....maybe they should stop lying to their clients and shifting goal posts to protect themselves......

Discovery saying that Elite level athletes should adjust their training to accommodate their points system........well enough said of the integrity of this organisation......

[nathrix]

Disco do have a problem paying for all those coffees and smoothies. Also, If I want my points reduced I need to miss some weekly goals and then I will get penalized with money being deducted for that stupid watch. I don't want to jipo the system and I still want to enjoy my rides. Unfortunately going for long rides or doing more than one activity a day does not cut it, it's not recognized by Discovery and not "healthy" enough. Now I have to go max out my HR a couple of hours a week or segment my rides to achieve my points goal if I have limited time. They are definitely not encouraging me to get fitter, just making me more pissed off when they increase my points and I have to put more time and effort into my training compared to other lazy fkctards.

[BarHugger]

You hitting 1200 points a week at the moment? I'm impressed...

 

I do though guarantee you won't hit it with my Apple watch... 21km run - 100points, 14km run - 100 points, two hours of squash - 100points, if I'm lucky.

 

This is the device they supplied to me, to measure my training and it simply can't regularly perform that function. And their service desk is so busy at the moment, if you don't have oodles of spare time to chase it all up, you end up just laughing it off - Yip, that 45km running week isn't enough for the fitness actuaries at Disco... 

You say that.....but they will claim they "did not supply the device" 

I think they may have some trouble coming.....I did not see the details and all the T's and C's....did they market it as a device to accurately measure your heart rate to help you reach your Vitality target ?

If so the inaccuracy of the device and it's inability to prove itself as a sturdy fitness device would then lead to having been misled.....and now they say it's between Apple and the watch wearers to sort it out.....will Apple have a recall and replace all the units ?

Interesting days ahead from what I can see.....

[Thor Buttox]

why do you continually come back to the assumption that Disco are worried about paying for the watch, and that's why they increased the figures? They were LAUGHABLY simple to get in the first iteration, and they remain far easier to get to when compared to last year's points allocations.

 

I agree that in SOME cases the 80% mark may be unachievable, but if you tell me that people can't hit 70% for 30 minutes and also be a pro athlete...

 

I also agree that the targets should be better tiered in order to allow for longer efforts at lower HR's. BUT - that does not discount how easy it is to get 1,200 points at the moment.

What Myles said. Almost exclusively. And with one addendum: I am willing to take an educated guess that the vast, vast majority do not have and cannot afford heart rate monitors. The fittest of us arguing about the merits of achieving 600 pts the points is like us arguing the merits of a new medical treatment without having any impact on our lives, when comparing to those who are only trying to lose weight or who do not want to cheat. Most of us have very little clue how people who just want to look good or feel healthier use these most pedestrian tools as incentives. They really just need to fix that scale.