fandacious Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Exactly...your post came across as if you insinuated that I might have suggested it was a crime....that is why I asked where you found the connotation... oh no, not at all - i was agreeing with you BarHugger 1
BarHugger Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 oh no, not at all - i was agreeing with youGot ya
DJR Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 prescribing PED's is not a crime. a pharmacist selling PED's is not a crime. a cyclist using PED's to cheat is illegal in the framework of cycling rules (but technically also not a crime)A medical doctor prescribing drugs for enhancing performance should be struck off the roll for unethical and unprofessional conduct, even if he can get off on a legality. The same applies to a pharmacist. Most peds are high schedule drugs and tightly controlled by law. They are not allowed (legally) to be sold over the counter or administered by a lay person. If they find their way out of the manufacturers warehouse and into a cyclists blood, an ILLEGAL ACT must have happened somewhere along the line (except if a TUE was granted by the cycling powers that be). That illegal act should be investigated and the culprit brought to book, not just the end user. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1
fandacious Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 A medical doctor prescribing drugs for enhancing performance should be struck off the roll for unethical and unprofessional conduct, even if he can get off on a legality. The same applies to a pharmacist. Most peds are high schedule drugs and tightly controlled by law. They are not allowed (legally) to be sold over the counter or administered by a lay person. If they find their way out of the manufacturers warehouse and into a cyclists blood, an ILLEGAL ACT must have happened somewhere along the line (except if a TUE was granted by the cycling powers that be). That illegal act should be investigated and the culprit brought to book, not just the end user. EPO is S4 - hardly tightly controlled. A asthma inhaler is S2 or S3 - again easily obtained over the counter. You're going to have a hard time convincing authorities that they need to look over doctors shoulders in case they misuse the system to help people cheat at sports
BarHugger Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 EPO is S4 - hardly tightly controlled. A asthma inhaler is S2 or S3 - again easily obtained over the counter. You're going to have a hard time convincing authorities that they need to look over doctors shoulders in case they misuse the system to help people cheat at sportsTrue that....it does however raise in interesting question...are some of the PED's they have on the list really all that beneficial and do they actually belong on the list...just a thought..
fandacious Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 True that....it does however raise in interesting question...are some of the PED's they have on the list really all that beneficial and do they actually belong on the list...just a thought.. caffeine was briefly on the list, so im not entirely sure the list is always right. however, fighting whether or not something should be on the list is another story all together
raptor-22 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 but cyclists are a small percentage of end users. Where else would these drugs be making money besides overpriced legitimate medical treatments?
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Exactly - it seems the sentiment from some hubbers is that speaking out without "proof" that you are going to take to a court of law is a far worse sin than actually doping.Unfortunately, with the legal framework and the extent to which some people are defending themselves with those love letters forcing a retraction "or else", you have to be very careful how things are done... It's not nice, especially in Fand's case, where he is being proven right. I think a few people are trying to reconcile their feelings for Fand's assertions (which were clear) whilst also trying to stay clear of any potential lawsuit... That's the trouble. You can't say something without proof. There be monsters... DJR, Andrew Steer and Tumbleweed 3
Edgar Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Exactly...your post came across as if you insinuated that I might have suggested it was a crime....that is why I asked where you found the connotation... Sensitive much? N-I-N-J-A 1
Edgar Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Afraid so Edgar.... It is not a strong look. rouxtjie 1
BarHugger Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Just look at the abuse poor old Zayin and Julius got from most of the people on here, just imagine what will happen should a fellow cyclist speak up and voice their suspicions...A little story....I have a friend who told me that as newlyweds they lived in a block of flats....they often heard sounds and noises till early hours in to the morning coming from their neighbours flat...they were really concerned and started thinking and expecting the worst...they would often hear a knocking sound....to them in their minds it sounded like someone chained up to an oil heater on the wall....they would then hear voices and words like "scalpel" "stitches" "cutting" and so on was often what they overheard...visits to the laundromat also became an interesting affair...other neighbours would sit and start talking amongst themselves...soon stories spread about the weird man with the hop that was suspected of possibly being a serial killer and harbouring women...quite a few people suggested the police get brought in to it all...other suggesting it's all very weird but perhaps a bit too "out there"...this was in the very early 90's...cut a long story short....my friend and his wife receive and invite to dinner at the suspected killers flat....very nervous and with much thought they accept his invitation...informing the others neighbours to be on standby....it actually turns out that the "killer" was a heart surgeon busy writing a book and spoke in to a dictaphone and thereafter would play it back and put it to paper....Yes it sounds stupid and OTT and I can understand that some will bring up the word paranoia....but just imagine what could have been if they took to twitter...My little fun story for the day.... Oh and the hop....his one leg was quite a bit shorter than the other... Edited January 27, 2016 by BarHugger Captain Fastbastard Mayhem and DJR 2
BarHugger Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 It is not a strong look.I know...it's a very weak look...right up their with the judgemental look..... raptor-22 1
rouxtjie Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) A little story....I have a friend who told me that as newlyweds they lived in a block of flats....they often heard sounds and noises till early hours in to the morning coming from their neighbours flat...they were really concerned and started thinking and expecting the worst...they would often hear a knocking sound....to them in their minds it sounded like someone chained up to an oil heater on the wall....they would then hear voices and words like "scalpel" "stitches" "cutting" and so on was often what they overheard...visits to the laundromat also became an interesting affair...other neighbours would sit and start talking amongst themselves...soon stories spread about the weird man with the hop that was suspected of possibly being a serial killer and harbouring women...quite a few people suggested the police get brought in to it all...other suggesting it's all very weird but perhaps a bit too "out there"...this was in the very early 90's...cut a long story short....my friend and his wife receive and invite to dinner at the suspected killers flat....very nervous and with much thought they accept his invitation...informing the others neighbours to be on standby....it actually turns out that the "killer" was a heart surgeon busy writing a book and spoke on to a dictaphone and therafter would play it back and put it to paper....Yes it sounds stupid and OTT and I can understand that some will bring up the word paranoia....but just imagine what could have been if they took to twitter...My little fun story for the day.... Indeed a little fun story but then in this case the dear doc did turn out to be serial killer. You think the neighbours would have been grilled for calling it a couple of months back Edited January 27, 2016 by rouxtjie DJR 1
Skubarra Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Unfortunately, with the legal framework and the extent to which some people are defending themselves with those love letters forcing a retraction "or else", you have to be very careful how things are done... It's not nice, especially in Fand's case, where he is being proven right. I think a few people are trying to reconcile their feelings for Fand's assertions (which were clear) whilst also trying to stay clear of any potential lawsuit... That's the trouble. You can't say something without proof. There be monsters... You are 100% right, but again my observation is - why is this the dominant issue here for a lot of hubbers as opposed to people doping? Patchelicious, fandacious and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 3
Patchelicious Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) You are 100% right, but again my observation is - why is this the dominant issue here for a lot of hubbers as opposed to people doping?Because people are now bored and the focus is changing... Also, there are some closet case fanbois here and they are using Fands topic as a deflection/red herring. Edited January 27, 2016 by Patchelicious Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, intern, Edgar and 1 other 4
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