Review: YT Capra CF Comp

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

Would rather have an Evil Insurgent, yes it costs a little bit more I know.

The DELTA system is better, looks better and more useable I reckon.

Just my opinion, not a fan of the capras looks personally.

[NicoBoshoff]

Had another look. USD price at the time of purchase was $4,800 and USD was 11.5 so that equals ZAR 55,200. I got it for less than 50k due to some specials going on at the time.

 

Fast forward to now. USD is around 15 to the ZAR and the USD price is $ 5,200. That's R 78k so ja a little out, but at 16:1 that moves to R 83,200. I think the last batch was brought in at around the 16:1 mark, so if you take those figures, it's a 51% price increase. 8.3% of that was due to the increase in USD price, the rest was solely exchange rate movements.

 

The only piss taking is in the exchange rates and time of purchase. If you import when the USD hits 16, you get reamed and you need to pass that on to the consumer unless you've done some forward pricing and paid before the goods hit our shores. Likewise, taking recent weeks into account - if you waited just ONE week, you'd have either saved or paid 10% more in one fell swoop by delaying payment a bit.

Yeah, not their fault. Not my problem either. This is going to be a terrible year or two for bike shops. Closures already starting. Sucks big time.

[Odinson]

Would rather have an Evil Insurgent, yes it costs a little bit more I know.

The DELTA system is better, looks better and more useable I reckon.

Just my opinion, not a fan of the capras looks personally.

Have you spent time on both bikes to be able to draw that conclusion?

[banna]

The only piss taking is in the exchange rates and time of purchase. If you import when the USD hits 16, you get reamed and you need to pass that on to the consumer unless you've done some forward pricing and paid before the goods hit our shores.  

 

Ja, I wonder to what extent (if any) they take forward cover?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Ja, I wonder to what extent (if any) they take forward cover?

Depends mostly on when their invoices are received, I reckon. Not too clued up on the whole process, but I know you can't just transfer USD unless you've got a reason for it (proven imports, for one) and for that you need an invoice. Either that, or an offshore account. Not too sure how many saffa companies (in the distro world) have that, or just pay as and when.

 

As you know, Banna - forward cover is a tricky mistress. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yeah, not their fault. Not my problem either. This is going to be a terrible year or two for bike shops. Closures already starting. Sucks big time.

yeah bro. It does. And I sure as hell can't afford a new bike nowadays. Wouldn't have been able to afford my current one without the sods that stole it. 

[banna]

Depends mostly on when their invoices are received, I reckon. Not too clued up on the whole process, but I know you can't just transfer USD unless you've got a reason for it (proven imports, for one) and for that you need an invoice. Either that, or an offshore account. Not too sure how many saffa companies (in the distro world) have that, or just pay as and when.

 

As you know, Banna - forward cover is a tricky mistress. 

Indeed. The main upside for forward cover is obviously that you know well in advance what your input costs are going to be and then you can plan accordingly. But of course from a cash flow point of view, you can either gain or lose a lot depending on forex movements.  

 

Some importers apply for a "blanket cover" arrangement with the SARB which allows them to take forward cover without presenting invoices at that time. Quite nifty, because then you can take cover at any given time when you see the Rand is strengthening.  

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Would rather have an Evil Insurgent, yes it costs a little bit more I know.

The DELTA system is better, looks better and more useable I reckon.

Just my opinion, not a fan of the capras looks personally.

Ah. Judging a suspension's performance based on its looks. Right. 

 

Just say you prefer the looks of the Evil. Nothing wrong with that, and you don't sound like a stoopid when you say it.

 

The DELTA (as darn sexy as it is) isn't objectively better or worse than the horst link design of the YT. It'll be different, sure, but each has its own quirks. And both are very good suspension designs. 

 

There's also a reason so many bikes have adapted the Horst link design since Spaz's patent ran out. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Myles Mayhew

[droenn]

Its pretty impossible to ride lots of different types of these bikes since they are either direct order, or shops hesitant to keep one on floor. 

 

And as there really aren't many bad bikes at this price point, I guess a lot of us do go by looks to narrow down choices. 

[MTBeer]

Jeez Myles, I thought Sherrif quit the Hub...

fark dude, I'm not even sure what half those words mean.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

fark dude, I'm not even sure what half those words mean.

Have another coffee, then come back

[Tommohawk]

Giant is probably the best value you'll get anywhere out of a "normal" distribution model, until Spez does their end of season last stock sales.

Though saying that, your comparison is a bit out.

Slx / deore mix vs SRAM GX. GX is equivalent of SLX if you must compare. So YT takes that round.

Deore brakes vs SRAM DB5. Same level, though I'd prefer the DRAM

Giant P-AM2 wheels vs DT SWISS m1700. No contest.

Giant dropper vs reverb. Even contest here

Monarch vs monarch plus. No contest here either.

Pike vs Yari. More difficult though the Pike wins this even though the yari is the better chassis.

Deore crank vs RF Aeffect crank. I'll take the raceface.

So no. Not beating it hands down in the value stakes, especially considering the differences in exchange rate at time of pricing, most likely.

Current USD price is USD 3400 for the Reign. YT is at current rates USD 3,333.

Next time, just check the facts before firing that shot.

 

No shots fired, I think the bikes are great, but the pricing should be sharper, especially considering that no dealer margin is factored into the price of the YT. This is supposed to be the strength of the "direct to market" model.

Although it's hard to draw direct comparisons on spec you'll note the dollar price is the same, yet the YT is 10% more expensive in our market...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

No shots fired, I think the bikes are great, but the pricing should be sharper, especially considering that no dealer margin is factored into the price of the YT. This is supposed to be the strength of the "direct to market" model. Although it's hard to draw direct comparisons on spec you'll note the dollar price is the same, yet the YT is 10% more expensive in our market...

And yet that's what you did... 

 

Again, time of purchase (dollar purchase) comes into play. If our exchange rate were more stable, it wouldn't be as much of a problem. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Myles Mayhew

[droenn]

Isn't it more reminiscent of how SA gets stooged by Apple? They deliberately set the prices higher to account for a more volatile currency, so there is a considerable buffer between the SA price and USA, should the ZAR (or other market) ever gain.

 

More going on that direct exchange rate I think. Other places get direct exchange with USA and EUR on YT prices, for example. I don't really know though, just speculating.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Isn't it more reminiscent of how SA gets stooged by Apple? They deliberately set the prices higher to account for a more volatile currency, so there is a considerable buffer between the SA price and USA, should the ZAR (or other market) ever gain.

 

More going on that direct exchange rate I think. Other places get direct exchange with USA and EUR on YT prices, for example. I don't really know though, just speculating.

Agreed that with a direct to market model the price should be pegged to the EUR, but with other scenarios the local distributors need to pay at the time that the product lands, which makes them particularly susceptible to exchange rate movements. 

 

It can work both ways, though. Sometimes the direct USD price / EUR price will be more expensive than the stock that we have here as it was bought at a lower rate (this happened last year on my bike just after they landed) 

 

And no - local bike pricing is directly related to USD / EUR price (at least with Giant / Spaz / YT it is) Just that it is a spot price at the time of distributor payment.

 

Apple etc are deliberately higher in this country in USD terms. Exchange Rate movements compound that difference instead of being the sole reason for it. 

[Iwan Kemp]

On the subject of comparing its RRP to that of a Reign there are a couple of things to consider.

 

1. Comparison is made assuming the same business model

We know YT does direct, Giant does not so should be more affordable, right? Not quite. Giant owns their factories and produce millions of bikes a year. R&D costs are set off against several models so too overheads and marketing expenses. The international site lists 24 bikes on the MTB side alone. YT has 8 counting alu and carbon seperate. To put that in perspective: there are more Reigns in Giant's line-up than YT has bikes in total!

 

Just having your own factories give you a MASSIVE advantage as there isn't a supplier in the chain who needs to make his cut and lead times could be shorter (as you call the shots).

 

Also Giant spec own brand gear that once again should come in cheaper than having to buy from a manufacturer who's core business it is to make money off that sale.

 

2. "Payment"

We don't know when or how these bikes are paid for. Forward cover, paying in Eur, USD or Yen all make a big difference.

 

3. Landed Cost

Most manufacturers have tier system in place with importers. If it's a shop (like William's who do Ibis) the volumes will be lower and therefor he will pay more than a full on distributor with a network of shops. We don't know what the YT SA's deal is. (And rightly so)

 

4. Apples and Oranges

Giant make some fine bikes that don't stand back for the best of them. Quite often they ARE the best of them. But we are comparing a mass producer with a niche, boutique brand here. For starters we should be looking at Santa Cruz, Ibis, Yeti and the likes for a real like for like. 

 

5. Stock Levels / Order Quantities 

Again, not sure what the deal is, but I would assume YT SA bring n smaller qty's and will have to do so more often. Giant does several containers full of stuff further reducing costs.