Who needs a coach anyway?

[Slowbee]

So we all agree that the % gains will be based on expertise of the coach?

 

*snip*

No. % Gains will depend on you and your expectations.

 

Do you really think you can improve 20%, 30% 40%?

[andydude]

I can kind of understand stricker's point. It's like if you buy a product you expect certain things. Same for if you buy a service.

 

In my opinion, the problem comes in trying to quantify something that can't be quantifed. The human body is an amazing 'machine' of which we still don't understand everything. Throw in that no two are alike and responds to any stimulus differently makes it almost impossible to predict. There are just too many internal and external variables.

 

That's the problem with the interpretation of some studies. E.g. the one study that was quoted says exercise will improve vo2 max by 10% (numbers not real, but for illustrative purposes). Great, I am expecting 10%! But there was actually a range of between MINUS 5% and plus 25%. So the coach and you could've been perfect, but your achievement could leave you very unhappy. Therefore, I think communication is very important.

['Dale]

Like any service, be clear about what the service promise is as well as expected gains

 

There is a lot of art in sport (the intangibles of the human psyche and the uniqueness of athletic abilities) and a chunk of science (power and HR data, specificity in training, nutritional best practices).

Credible coaches will harness both art and science to predict and control gains.

 

Good coaches are generally underpaid.

Coaching is a profession and is often treated as not.

Edited October 11, 2016 by 'Dale

[Veebee]

So we all agree that the % gains will be based on expertise of the coach?

 

So pro- 1% improvements

Year 1-3 cycling - 10%

year 0-1 Cycling 20%

 

something that can be discovered after doing initial questionnaire with some base line test

 

so you saying, sign up with a good coach and become a pro tour rider after 4 years ??

I really think you looking at this the wrong way.

 

Everyone is different, some may see huge gains while others have smaller improvements. Its our body and you can't blame the coach for this.

[Stricker]

so you saying, sign up with a good coach and become a pro tour rider after 4 years ??

I really think you looking at this the wrong way.

 

Everyone is different, some may see huge gains while others have smaller improvements. Its our body and you can't blame the coach for this.

Agreed,

But what if you spend R30k a year, follow program to a T and come end of the year you exactly the same as you were before you spend the 30K, do you blame yourself ?

['Dale]

Agreed,

But what if you spend R30k a year, follow program to a T and come end of the year you exactly the same as you were before you spend the 30K, do you blame yourself ?

 

It is impossible to not gain tremendously unless you were not focused, motivated and realistic about the goals and objectives, barring injury ????

Edited October 11, 2016 by 'Dale

[NotSoBigBen]

It is impossible to not gain tremendously unless you were not focused, motivated and realistic about the goals and objectives

 

Me thinks he may be missing that  .... a bit like buying a power meter and expecting that in itself to make you faster/better?

[Sitting@89]

My 2c, I would only really use a coach for things like correcting pedal stroke, posture on the bike etc. all the technical things that I really couldn't do myself because I picked up the wrong technique/bad habit by self coaching in the first place.

 

That being said though most other elements have a wealth of information available on each topic on the interwebs and latest science oversimplified says this, don't cut out carbs just eat good carbs and a good balance of proteins and fats. Sleep 7-8 hours a night so your body can recover. Lift weights twice a week and alternate between long steady distance rides and interval training (2 of each every week) doing this should be enough to yield results to even most intermediate cyclists remember gains = effort over time.

 

Oh and another point for me as other people also made I think the biggest value for me in coaching would be in the discipline/accountability aspects that coaching bringing to the equation.

[Veebee]

Agreed,

But what if you spend R30k a year, follow program to a T and come end of the year you exactly the same as you were before you spend the 30K, do you blame yourself ?

 

as mentioned above, its impossible to not gain anything unless you do something wrong.

[shaper]

Basic facts as I see it from the comments:

• Can't justify paying for a coach
• if does want's guaranteed return on investment irrespective of ability and human body limits
• tone of comments seem to indicate unlikely to follow a plan to the T and seems to have an issue with someone telling him what to do... there seems to be a sense of I know better... else if I do not get (X)% improvement then will question everything that is said and instructed by the coach and ultimately the training plan.
• Perceived benefits long term negated unless there is huge % improvements (here and now) ... bottom line!!

My 2c... why do all the top athletes and pro's have coaches??? Rhetorical question but is self answering

[Stricker]

Me thinks he may be missing that  .... a bit like buying a power meter and expecting that in itself to make you faster/better?

lol.. me understand that 100%

 

Let me get to the point:

 

What ownness is on the Coach?

 

So basically from what I read here, I can start a coaching comp tomorrow , to a FTP test with clients, punch that numbers into a program and boom, I take your money.

If you don't make any gains sorry , but I will still take your money .

 

Surley the coach must be held accountable to something?

Edited October 11, 2016 by Stricker

[pe3nguin]

Me thinks he may be missing that  .... a bit like buying a power meter and expecting that in itself to make you faster/better?

And thats why there are so many second hand units for sale. These PMs are clearly broken! This thing should have added at least 30 watts to my FTP! Where are mah gainz!?

[pe3nguin]

 

 

Surly the coach must be held accountable to something?

If I were looking for a coach, I would be paying for INSIGHT. I doubt I would need an entire years worth of coaching to realise if I am not receiving value for my Randelas.

 

Your thinking has been so backward this entire thread it hurts. Sure, you could offer coaching services and you might even trick people into paying you for a few months, but you would offer negligible insight and your scam would dry up. Coaches arent looking to rip you off kid, its a matter of offering their insight to help you realize your goals. If your expectations dont align with their insight, surely you stop spending the money.

 

You speak as if the only option is to spend an entire years worth of coaching money and this will guarantee immediate success.

 

When do you start holding yourself accountable for negligible performance gains?

 

 

[nonky]

Like any service, be clear about what the service promise is as well as expected gains

 

There is a lot of art in sport (the intangibles of the human psyche and the uniqueness of athletic abilities) and a chunk of science (power and HR data, specificity in training, nutritional best practices).

Credible coaches will harness both art and science to predict and control gains.

 

Good coaches are generally underpaid.

Coaching is a profession and is often treated as not.

 

Just look at the performance of SA's rugby teams to see the importance of good coaching (vs. the AB's)

[Slowbee]

My first suggestion would be to make ONE appointment with a coach. This allows for two things.

 

1. You can actually talk to someone. Find out if you can get on with them. You need to be comfortable with them.

2. Discuss you goals and objectives. They will quickly tell you if your GOALS are UNREALISTIC.

 

I would like to finish by asking this. exactly what are you wanting from a coach ? What level are you riding now and what level do you want to be riding at ?  My entire impression is that you are wanting to win every race on the calender and if you dont win it is the coaches fault.

[Veebee]

lol.. me understand that 100%

 

Let me get to the point:

 

What ownness is on the Coach?

 

So basically from what I read here, I can start a coaching comp tomorrow , to a FTP test with clients, punch that numbers into a program and boom, I take your money.

If you don't make any gains sorry , but I will still take your money .

 

Surley the coach must be held accountable to something?

 

do you really think that's what a coach does ? Punch in your FTP and some magic systems works out a plan ?? Stop fooling yourself man.