Man doping

[jcza]

Really?!

You can only drag this out so long.

 

Do you get an unfair advantage? Yes/No

Are you competing or just riding socially?

Maybe start with the rules which incidentally is the same for competing or fun.

 

Follow the proper procedure if you have a protest.

[eddy]

There are a lot of people stating that there is no difference between a solo female rider drafting a male rider to gain advantage and the case of the wife doing the same as part of a team with her husband. On the surface I agree, there does not appear to be much difference, but some more in-depth analysis is required to expose what the objectionable part is of a female in a team claiming victory of her solo competitors. To start off with, the husband and wife team is a deliberate collaboration from the start to the finish. The husband is obviously stronger than the wife and would presumably finish the same way. If a gap opens between them, then the husband will slow down. If the wife is slowing on the climbs then the husband will wait and/or even assist by way of pushing. This is guaranteed for the entire duration of the race. That husbands wheel is a sure bet from start to finish. On the other hand, a solo female rider is facing a totally unknown random choice of maybe 50 male riders in order to find a similar opportunity to the team rider. The is absolutely no guarantee that she will even find one wheel to follow for 100 meters let alone the entire race. The fitness of a chosen male rider is also an absolute gamble and he might pop after 5 minutes. If the solo female rider did by pure chance find a random wheel to suck that was within her ability to hold on to and thereby gain benefit from, even then there is no guarantee as to how long this will last. If the slightest of gaps opens up between them do you for one minute think that the male rider will be thinking “Oh sh*t this poor chicky has lost my wheel, let me sacrifice my own time and slow down for her to catch up”. Or similarly, do you think he is going to wait for some arbitrary female rider up a hill or for that matter even push her up the hill. I don’t think so, unless she is sh*t hot and had exchanged phone number earlier with a wink or two.

So as you can see there is a fundamental difference between a planned team race and a pure chance random guarantee less wheel suck of a solo rider!

 

Exactly ! In cycling, teams are stronger than individuals and greater than the sum of the parts.

 

You could also have added that random stranger won't be carrying your tools and spares, won't help when you get a mechanical, won't offer focused encouragement, won't fetch and carry water bottles, in fact won't give you any help you cannot take for yourself.

[Skubarra]

Really?!

You can only drag this out so long.

 

Do you get an unfair advantage? Yes/No

Are you competing or just riding socially?

 

One can debate on the fairness or not of this all day long, the reality is that as long as categories are mixed together they will have an influence each other, no rant or moan on thehub is going to change that.

 

If someone don't like it only do the races where categories are split and riders race seperately.

[Edition 507]

Exactly ! In cycling, teams are stronger than individuals and greater than the sum of the parts.

 

You could also have added that random stranger won't be carrying your tools and spares, won't help when you get a mechanical, won't offer focused encouragement, won't fetch and carry water bottles, in fact won't give you any help you cannot take for yourself.

Absolutely, and this is the gist of the thread and why the OP has a valid gripe.

[The expat cyclist]

I think I have learned that you cannot just appeal to the moral fibre of everyone and hope they get it.

Some folks just won't.

 

It seems that as long as the start groups are the same bunch and no one complains afterwards, it is ok.

[Edition 507]

I was doing the short race, and found myself being passed by what was (unknown to me) the elite ladies. Anyway, I thought to myself, I will hang on to these nice gals, wow they even have their own car following them. Then they started vloeking me, and this horrible woman in the car, with a loud hailer shouts: you can't ride in this bunch, so I get like all indignant, and start invoking my constitutional rights and all, and 3 seconds later they dropped me. It was both the pinnacle and the nadir of my cycling career.

LOL, Harryn, been there done that! Being a certified non-podium finisher myself, and one day having been dropped from my Vets bunch and suffering a bit, the elite ladies came past and it looked like a good opportunity to tag along behind and get an easier ride to the finish. And of course the view at the back of the ladies bunch is some what pleasant, shapely tanned legs and all. OMG the next minute I thought f*cking WW3 had just broken out as the comm pulls up along side me and starts screaming at me "You can't ride here" "Don't interfere in the race" "Its not your category" "Rant rant rant". She was so aggressive that I thought I might even be arrested, so I immediately eased up on the pedals and raised my hands above my head in submission.

Lesson learned, don't go near a race that is not yours!

[Vetplant]

I think I have learned that you cannot just appeal to the moral fibre of everyone and hope they get it.

Some folks just won't.

 

It seems that as long as the start groups are the same bunch and no one complains afterwards, it is ok.

Allot of riders on this forum are with you on this one, don't lose all hope.

 

My question is, what is happening with e-bikes in races and "fun rides"? Don't tell me not a single e-bike has been used in events in SA...? To quote the 2010 SWC build-up line: "Feel it, it is here"

[Tumbleweed]

LOL, Harryn, been there done that! Being a certified non-podium finisher myself, and one day having been dropped from my Vets bunch and suffering a bit, the elite ladies came past and it looked like a good opportunity to tag along behind and get an easier ride to the finish. And of course the view at the back of the ladies bunch is some what pleasant, shapely tanned legs and all. OMG the next minute I thought f*cking WW3 had just broken out as the comm pulls up along side me and starts screaming at me "You can't ride here" "Don't interfere in the race" "Its not your category" "Rant rant rant". She was so aggressive that I thought I might even be arrested, so I immediately eased up on the pedals and raised my hands above my head in submission.

Lesson learned, don't go near a race that is not yours!

 

The other lesson - don't date a women's race comm. They seem to have anger management issues.

[The expat cyclist]

Allot of riders on this forum are with you on this one, don't lose all hope.

 

My question is, what is happening with e-bikes in races and "fun rides"? Don't tell me not a single e-bike has been used in events in SA...? To quote the 2010 SWC build-up line: "Feel it, it is here"

I left a mark on the e-bike fred.

Obviously.

[L46]

I only saw this thread now and had a few chuckles along the way.  Don't take my comments too seriously as it only represents a few thoughts;

 

I realize the OP was making a general statement and not one for this race in particular so I won't elaborate much on that.  I think in general the organizers/race commissaire should make the race categories and rules known before the start, split the start racing bunches accordingly and enforce the rules by their own discretion for the racing categories.  You cannot blame the riders for winning the categories if it wasn't against any rules (in this particular case).  Think of a rugby match where the referee makes a few mistakes along the way, you need to blame the referee, not the players.  They cannot take blame for winning the match if the rules wasn't enforced correctly.

 

Just quickly, I see there's a lot of people (not the OP) stating that Yzette got helped.  Now it might or might not be the case.  I have to agree with her statement though that drafting doesn't have that much of an effect in mountainbiking.  Personally I don't think she would've slowed P down and would've been able to race at possibly the same pace even if he wasn't there, be that taking other people's wheels or not, like the other woman possibly did in any case.  Oh, and she got 4th overall (men and woman), so why didn't the other 80 odd people just sit behind her?  If you doubt her ability I suggest you pitch up at one of the in season Velo (club) rides.

 

For the Karoo 2 Coast discussions.  I have to agree if you are racing for podium it's a different ball game and you need to stick to whatever rules apply.  If you are not racing but rather riding for the experience in the back bunches you need to shift your mindset.  We did it this year and yes I pushed my friend up some hills and encouraged her in the second half of the race.  Why?  Because we paid a lot of cash to go down there and enjoy the experience, not race, but rather ride.  I wanted her to enjoy the ride and take in as much of the vibe as possible.  For me it wasn't about winning or timing or anything, it's about the experience.  If you started in B or C batch or whatever and we were the reason you finished 1397th instead of 1396th i'm sorry but this will in any case have no effect on your seeding as it is calculated based on your time, not your position.  Rather focus on your own experience and not on what others around you are doing.  Some people ride, others race, you need to put both hats on to understand the difference.

[CogitoErgoSum]

I think I have learned that you cannot just appeal to the moral fibre of everyone and hope they get it.

Some folks just won't.

 

It seems that as long as the start groups are the same bunch and no one complains afterwards, it is ok.

As a side note....

 

I see the she-in-question is part of the Clover Ladies squad for 2017....

 

If you are semi-pro, why do you need your husband to pull you through a race?

 

(Basic investigation affirmed the above...)

 

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Martin PJ]

Allot of riders on this forum are with you on this one, don't lose all hope.

 

My question is, what is happening with e-bikes in races and "fun rides"? Don't tell me not a single e-bike has been used in events in SA...? To quote the 2010 SWC build-up line: "Feel it, it is here"

 

In KZN there are some ebikes used in the races. As long as you go near the back nobody cares.

[Edition 507]

The other lesson - don't date a women's race comm. They seem to have anger management issues.

You damn right! The comm at this year’s vets 50+ Gauteng Champs was equally aggressive, carrying on at us like a fish-wife until she finally pulls up in front of the bunch, gets out of her car, adopts an aggressive stance in the middle of the road with her arms crossed in front of her like the #FeesMustFall students, and shouts “I’M STOPPING THE RACE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED ENOUGH TIMES, DON’T CROSS THE WHITE LINE, BLAH BLAH BLAH”

CSA certainly can pick ‘em!

[V12man]

LOL, Harryn, been there done that! Being a certified non-podium finisher myself, and one day having been dropped from my Vets bunch and suffering a bit

 

You should stop riding your mtb with knobblies in the vets groups.....

[nickc]

You damn right! The comm at this year’s vets 50+ Gauteng Champs was equally aggressive, carrying on at us like a fish-wife until she finally pulls up in front of the bunch, gets out of her car, adopts an aggressive stance in the middle of the road with her arms crossed in front of her like the #FeesMustFall students, and shouts “I’M STOPPING THE RACE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED ENOUGH TIMES, DON’T CROSS THE WHITE LINE, BLAH BLAH BLAH”

CSA certainly can pick ‘me!

 

 

In the Amashova a few years back, thought the Comm shouting and swearing at us like a mad thing was a guy, only heard later it was a she. Think she has given up being a Comm and now plays Super Rugby.

[Sparkles]

For the Karoo 2 Coast discussions.  I have to agree if you are racing for podium it's a different ball game and you need to stick to whatever rules apply.  If you are not racing but rather riding for the experience in the back bunches you need to shift your mindset.  We did it this year and yes I pushed my friend up some hills and encouraged her in the second half of the race.  Why?  Because we paid a lot of cash to go down there and enjoy the experience, not race, but rather ride.  I wanted her to enjoy the ride and take in as much of the vibe as possible.  For me it wasn't about winning or timing or anything, it's about the experience.  If you started in B or C batch or whatever and we were the reason you finished 1397th instead of 1396th i'm sorry but this will in any case have no effect on your seeding as it is calculated based on your time, not your position.  Rather focus on your own experience and not on what others around you are doing.  Some people ride, others race, you need to put both hats on to understand the difference.

 

Thank you for the perspective.  I did, however, specifically say that the practice did not have an impact on my race, so you are reading more into what I wrote and your 1396th vs 1397th chirp was uncalled for.  

 

My example was referring to the non-podium contender, but also not a back-marker part of the field (unless the racing snakes count everything that isn't A batch as back-markers ).  Because for the people starting at the back I do understand that it helps with the experience of the vibe to get a bit of "assistance".  

 

I was trying to work out why so many women would rather want to finish with a sub-5 hours with assistance, rather than 5.5 hours on their own.  Because here I agree with your 1396th vs 1397th chirp, it doesn't really make a difference.