conversations with a table mountain mugger - groundup article

[Mlayne]

Now that's an interesting idea - maybe using bikes and riding as the mechanism to engage somehow. Maybe like a trail riding club? I don't have experience in this kind of project but I'd be willing to participate / contribute.

 

Anyone got ideas / resources?

[Mlayne]

Great idea.... How about some sort of "car gaurd" "bike guard" initiative where we approach community to provide some level of protection and in return we pay per ride int an No fund or community initiatives which educate kids... The community have the most to gain then from ensuring safety and will discourage the Nortons of the world... Like asking people. Similar to Nortons aunt and sister who want to protect their kids from the dangers of drugs and gangsterism. We pay to use trails all over for upkeep of trails why not pay to ensure our safety so we can have stress free ride and ride more places we currently avoid due to safety

[Gen]

Great idea.... How about some sort of "car gaurd" "bike guard" initiative where we approach community to provide some level of protection and in return we pay per ride int an No fund or community initiatives which educate kids... The community have the most to gain then from ensuring safety and will discourage the Nortons of the world... Like asking people. Similar to Nortons aunt and sister who want to protect their kids from the dangers of drugs and gangsterism. We pay to use trails all over for upkeep of trails why not pay to ensure our safety so we can have stress free ride and ride more places we currently avoid due to safety

I think this is really a case of easier said than done.. in this instance.

 

Yes you can try and support the community and encourage them.. but I think if you had a sit down with them they will probably tell you that the Nortons of the world that also have gang affiliation are very intimidating, the moment the community or part of the community start interfering with their easy pay day they will receive horrible treats or even worse.

 

I agree that the only way to improve their lives and their future is education and a good support system for their youth. People they can turn to when eg a Norton's dad tells them at a young age don't cry but stab the next one that hurts you. They need a lot of positive people in their lives from a young age..

[Showtime]

I think, actually I know how understated the relationship between parents and their children are.

If certain bonds are not made or are missing or certain negative bonds enforced, that child may never recover. Children don't have the knowledge to always "deal" with certain things.

If these things are not corrected early on, that child will always be back of the bus in society.

 

I spend allot time at a children's home and it hits me like a hammer every time. You are 5 years old and nobody cares about you tonight but you. Nobody cares if you scored a goal today in the soccer match or if you need to do some reading for school. Nobody is taking care of the big things so you can be a child for a while knowing it will all be ok. 

 

The people will know they have a leader when he tells them to take care of their children instead of telling them the world owes them something just to get votes. 

[Patchelicious]

Another thing to consider is that a drive again only looks at one point in a multifaceted issue.

 

Many people will be reluctant to give up more of their time and money, when they feel that their taxes, which is supposed to go some way in addressing these other issues, is being squandered.

[Gen]

Another thing to consider is that a drive again only looks at one point in a multifaceted issue.

 

Many people will be reluctant to give up more of their time and money, when they feel that their taxes, which is supposed to go some way in addressing these other issues, is being squandered.

This is very very true..

 

I am taking me as an example.. what have I done for my community this year..

 

Nothing... we seem to think that if we clear our cupboards out and donate that to the children's homes or the community drive..etc that that will clear our conscience and we will feel better and we fool ourselves that we think that will make a difference. I have failed my community !

 

Yes I cleared out all the kids clothes that were too small and all the extra furniture and donated it to the school's charity project .. but how exactly is the lady from town's old clothes and furniture she doesn't want going to make a difference in that child's life.. yes he/she may sleep warmer tonight on a bed he or she didn't have before.. but there is still no one that gives him/her the emotional support they so desperately need.

 

Today I am ashamed of myself[emoji17]

[NotSoBigBen]

This is very very true..

 

I am taking me as an example.. what have I done for my community this year..

 

Nothing... we seem to think that if we clear our cupboards out and donate that to the children's homes or the community drive..etc that that will clear our conscience and we will feel better and we fool ourselves that we think that will make a difference. I have failed my community !

 

Yes I cleared out all the kids clothes that were too small and all the extra furniture and donated it to the school's charity project .. but how exactly is the lady from town's old clothes and furniture she doesn't want going to make a difference in that child's life.. yes he/she may sleep warmer tonight on a bed he or she didn't have before.. but there is still no one that gives him/her the emotional support they so desperately need.

 

Today I am ashamed of myself[emoji17]

 

Don't be ashamed of yourself, you have done more than many many people have I am ashamed to say myself  

[Gen]

I spend allot time at a children's home and it hits me like a hammer every time. You are 5 years old and nobody cares about you tonight but you. Nobody cares if you scored a goal today in the soccer match or if you need to do some reading for school. Nobody is taking care of the big things so you can be a child for a while knowing it will all be ok.

 

The people will know they have a leader when he tells them to take care of their children instead of telling them the world owes them something just to get votes.

This is very true.

 

I coach my son's hockey team and there is one kid that has incredible talent.. he has progressed so much this year from a beginner to part of the provincial HP squad (hoping he will make the final team) but he never has anyone next to the field supporting him... there is also very little money for the expense it takes to get him from Orkney where he lives (he goes to school in Klerksdorp) to Potch for the Friday HP training sessions.. so I made sure he rides with us every Friday as my son also has to go to the sessions... we don't live in Orkney but I am happy to travel the extra kilos every Friday and drop him off at home because that kid deserves a shot at developing his game.

 

Not only has his hockey improved but he has grown so much as a person.. he has gone from an angry kid with very little self discipline to one of the hardest working players in the team.. that kid, man I just love him to bits. We all do even my youngest had his name on his bday party list. Man that kid has crept in our hearts and will stay there for a very long time.

 

 

Lol.. his nickname is Klokkies (a nickname he gave himself as no one can pronounce his given name) and he always jokes that when he turns 16 he will change it to Klokke cause then he isn't a kid anymore.

 

 

Edit.. aaw he just let me know that he passed Gr8

 

Damn I am so proud of him.. he really pulled finger this last term[emoji122] [emoji122]

[BigDL]

I spend allot time at a children's home and it hits me like a hammer every time. You are 5 years old and nobody cares about you tonight but you. Nobody cares if you scored a goal today in the soccer match or if you need to do some reading for school. Nobody is taking care of the big things so you can be a child for a while knowing it will all be ok.

 

The people will know they have a leader when he tells them to take care of their children instead of telling them the world owes them something just to get votes.

Add to that the hundreds of thousands of child headed households where children are trying to raise children because their parents have died of HIV, and you very quickly start to begin to comprehend the size of the challenge.

[Shebeen]

If you want to read up a bit more on mountain crime in HBay, there's quite a lot reported on the climbing site - http://www.climbing.co.za/2013/10/mugging-in-karbonkelberg-area/

 

I wonder if anything is prepared security wise for the new XC loop they opened the other day, if it gets popular then there's more soft targets.

[Skubarra]

Should the journo get to decide what Norton was up to or should he have rather let the authorities decide?

He knew the risks, the same as Norton. It is unfair then to provide him the gratitude of  "he took a risk putting the story together...ah shame, poor guy, forgive him his sins" and not provide Norton the same gratitude.

 

Yes, I know it is two extremes but the journo to me is the same as a Norton. In fact, he is worse. He had surely a better start in life and should be prone to better decisions.

 

If you or your loved one was ever a victim of a crime and you knew someone could have prevented it, would you care a damn of the risk they had to take to do it?

 

And herein the dilemma I have with the story teller. I checked out his blog / website. He publishes all these tails of societal ills, purportedly in an effort to "highlight" the problems faced by, usually, the less fortunate.

 

I just find it strange that the angle he seems to go for is the marginalized criminal element. To me, that smacks of journalistic sensationalism, whereby the end-goal for him, that of financial gain/peer recognition. far outweighs any sense of right or wrong, which should lead him to report these thugs. But he wont, because then he has no street cred left amongst his peers, which he so evidently craves.

 

In this I have a major problem. 

 

Maybe you can give us some detail on this journo's reputation or lack thereof with his peers that you found? Some pretty stong accusations you are making?

 

Just in general - I am also certainly not comfortable with the idea that the journo knew about a potential crime and chose to keep quiet for the sake of his relationship with Norton and the story.

 

That said, it is easy to sit behind the anonymous safety of my pc and criticize after the fact, he had to make a quick judgement call while being in a somewhat dangerous situation dealing with a dangerous individual.

 

Would love to hear Tumble's take on this, but from the little that I know of journalism it seems naive to think that journos can win the trust of a criminal source while doubling as a police informant required to snitch every time a criminal suggest they are going to break the law. If that was the case we will only ever hear stories from the victims and police perspectives.

 

Personally I found this window into the mind&life of a criminal interesting, is it worth the "moral sacrifices"? - debatable.

[Mojoman]

1 Norton = 1 Bullet as far as I am concerned.....

[Serious Panda]

Add to that the hundreds of thousands of child headed households where children are trying to raise children because their parents have died of HIV, and you very quickly start to begin to comprehend the size of the challenge.

 

This is no challenge it is completely a lost cause. SA is still going backwards at a fast pace with no end in sight. The only challenge that remain is to keep yourself and your people safe.

[LazyTrailRider]

This is no challenge it is completely a lost cause. SA is still going backwards at a fast pace with no end in sight. The only challenge that remain is to keep yourself and your people safe.

 

And then? What about your people's children, who will have to deal with further escalated problems? Will they leave the country? What about their children's children, who'll have nowhere left to go when the borders of the countries they've moved to are overrun because of this lost cause you refer to? Have you started funding the trust they'll need when they eventually need to move to Elysium (or likely Mars, by then)?

[MTBeer]

1 Norton = 1 Bullet as far as I am concerned.....

yup, that'll solve all our problems. As a matter of fact, why don't we just adopt Saudi style justice in SA? I mean Saudi must be an absolute paradise to live in...

[Serious Panda]

And then? What about your people's children, who will have to deal with further escalated problems? Will they leave the country? What about their children's children, who'll have nowhere left to go when the borders of the countries they've moved to are overrun because of this lost cause you refer to? Have you started funding the trust they'll need when they eventually need to move to Elysium (or likely Mars, by then)?

 

Yes, if I had children they would not be in SA anymore permanently, like so many already are. Could have, should have, would have, the story of SA. I just think its too late now, options for real solutions have vanished with time.