Buying overseas vs supporting local

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Maybe to make my opinion a bit clearer. I think the losers are actually the LBSs and consumers.

 

We have discussed the profits of LBS on another thread and two things we must remember, (1) don't confuse mark-up with profit and their profits are actually not that great. We even said we won't be investors in bike shops, although an owner/manager can make a living; (2) it's the large companies like Shimano making the most money and dictating terms and with their resources it's difficult to fight against them. My beef is more with these global conglomerates and how they treat consumers.

 

On a side note, our Consumer Protection Act gives an automatic 6 months warranty for material defects. Even if you buy from an overseas company. And no company policy can override that!

I agree with you somewhat, this acorn has been discussed many times.

 

From my experience of been an official importer of a product (not bicycle related) the manufacturer could care less where the return emanated from, it could be South Africa, South Sudan or South Korea, they dont care, they will support their distributor in that country and replace as required, I have never, let me repeat that, never, had a claim refused by the manufacturer, they will bend over sideways to support their local agent because its simply in their interest to do so.

The issue lies locally, you cant bully customers into supporting you with threats and legal jargon on warranties etc, you will just alienate them further, you have to convince them that its in their interest to support local as opposed to importing themselves.

 

This is not just a cycle issue, its in all consumer goods, however, some distributors have realized it, embraced it, and got on with it by honouring warranties etc,.....we did, and it served us well.

Lets not forget, we live in a global world where people can buy where they like, SA like many other Western countries is a free trade country, so as long as its legal you can import it, making life difficult for local consumers will never endear them to you, manufacturers are well aware of this and spend millions trying to get closer to their clients not further away. Unfortunately like a dripping faucet, where slowly the drips increase to a flow, likewise here, more and more people will simply just opt to buy internationally for no other reason than because they feel spurned by the local industry.      

[GrahamS2]

The issue lies locally, you cant bully customers into supporting you with threats and legal jargon on warranties etc, you will just alienate them further, you have to convince them that its in their interest to support local as opposed to importing themselves.

 Finally! Someone gets that it's all about bullying.

 

Now let's take the local fly fishing industry, also largely based on an import and distribute model of goods that have a WORLDWIDE warranty applicable to them (lest we forget that Shimano and SRAM are international companies and cannot selectively offer warranty cover based on the users location..). I own a LOT of fly fishing kit, from a LOT of different manufacturers. Not once, in 25 years, have I had even the slightest issue with a warranty claim on anything. Even on goods I've purchased offshore. Sure the local distributor may charge a nominal handling fee in certain instances, but that is to be expected.

 

Cycling retail industry simply cannot get it right in SA.

[NordicElf]

I agree with you somewhat, this acorn has been discussed many times.

 

From my experience of been an official importer of a product (not bicycle related) the manufacturer could care less where the return emanated from, it could be South Africa, South Sudan or South Korea, they dont care, they will support their distributor in that country and replace as required, I have never, let me repeat that, never, had a claim refused by the manufacturer, they will bend over sideways to support their local agent because its simply in their interest to do so.

The issue lies locally, you cant bully customers into supporting you with threats and legal jargon on warranties etc, you will just alienate them further, you have to convince them that its in their interest to support local as opposed to importing themselves.

 

This is not just a cycle issue, its in all consumer goods, however, some distributors have realized it, embraced it, and got on with it by honouring warranties etc,.....we did, and it served us well.

Lets not forget, we live in a global world where people can buy where they like, SA like many other Western countries is a free trade country, so as long as its legal you can import it, making life difficult for local consumers will never endear them to you, manufacturers are well aware of this and spend millions trying to get closer to their clients not further away. Unfortunately like a dripping faucet, where slowly the drips increase to a flow, likewise here, more and more people will simply just opt to buy internationally for no other reason than because they feel spurned by the local industry.      

 

 

I think Garmin is a perfect example of a company that got this right. I bought my first Garmin overseas because it was cheaper, much cheaper. I broke it and Garmin SA treated me so well I have since bought every other Garmin locally because the value is greater, even if the price isn't. 

[IH8MUD]

I bought  a Toyota Hilux imported from Thai-land. 

 

Everything is the same as the local  Toyota Hilux,  exept for the some badges that says Vigo instead of Hilux and some colour combinations 

So you can clearly see its an import and the fact cant be hidden. 

 

So for 1ste service I take it to the local Toyota dealer. 

Service department tells me; " No we don't service imports" 

Both Toyota dealers gives my same crap. 

 

So I google their address and  email Toyota HQ in  Japan, informing them of this shyte.  

 

Within a week both Toyota Dealers phone me, eager to service my car. 

 

Short of the story is Toyota HQ contacted them , told them, it is a Toyota product, they are a Toyota dealer, they will service a Toyota product regardless of where it was bought. 

 

 

Point I' m trying to make is shopping and sales is getting global. 

There is really no excuse for high prices(compared to other markets), lame service and not honouring warranties, ext. if the big players just get their  mindset right.

 

Not having this product support is shortsighted and then you should not complain if people don't buy your product or buy it somewhere else. 

[jcza]

Is CWC Online classified as Import or Local? 

[awesme]

Ditto

 

First 2 x Edge500's was bought from CRC, had problems, Garmin SA fixed/replaced both as time went on. Have since bout another 3 from local agents/EasyGIS.

 

Because of the original experience from Garmin. Treat your customer right and ye he will even pay more than other sources, threaten him, black mail him and he will happily pay more somewhere else not to deal with you again, and well at that point if the some where else is actually cheaper than you, you committed business suicide, don't blame him.

 

If we take any brand product from SA into any other country, and have a problem, the local guys will help us, I've had this... it just in SA where they go with if not bought in SA through our channel then don't bother talking to us.

 

G

 

I think Garmin is a perfect example of a company that got this right. I bought my first Garmin overseas because it was cheaper, much cheaper. I broke it and Garmin SA treated me so well I have since bought every other Garmin locally because the value is greater, even if the price isn't. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Is CWC Online classified as Import or Local? 

Local, as they're a SA store. CPA would cover purchases from them, and they'd need to back themselves. 

 

Manufacturers aren't getting involved due to CPA, and CPA does not protect you with goods purchased outside of SA. That's purely up to the discretion of the local distributor, or, as in the cases above, the manufacturer themselves telling the local distro to stop being a dick From what I understand, at least. 

 

I agree that it shouldn't be that way, as it's perpetuating a sort of protectionist environment. 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I think Garmin is a perfect example of a company that got this right. I bought my first Garmin overseas because it was cheaper, much cheaper. I broke it and Garmin SA treated me so well I have since bought every other Garmin locally because the value is greater, even if the price isn't. 

Garmin is actually a perfect example, this is a company that basis its reputation on service and no quibble customer relations,... I can honestly say its world class.

 

Sony is another, I bought a Sony camera from SA with me, something went wrong with the LED, I took it to a local Sony shop here and showed them the issue, the guy picked up the phone, made one call, tossed it into the box, said its a common problem and gave me another, he even gave me a new set of batteries, when I looked at him quite incredulously he said "theres batteries in your old camera right?" Yes I said, he shrugged shoulders, So?  

 

Just as an aside, I bought my Harley over as well and it was still under the SA warranty, I went to the local shop and after a bit of paperwork to prove it was actually mine the warranty was approved and is carried here now, No issues, No questions.

 

So I guess what I am really saying is I will support those suppliers who support me, Garmin, Sony, Harley etc.  

[Frosty]

I was wondering what hubbers felt on this just this morning.

Powertap C1 > CRC incl our VAT R10,000 (after Zuma's idiocy overnight) and from Bicyclepower.co.za its R13,000. Now that is 30%

 

My question was more about WHY than a worry about warranty.

CRC is a retail shop, like Bicyclepower and any LBS. from a Value Chain point of view both will order from the supplier, via a distributor or 2 and the actual shipping will happen directly from China.

 

So why these extreme differences? Can any local guys comment. What are we missing. I can see how CRC might demand some volume discounts and shipping China-South Africa will be a little more than China-UK, but can this add up to these huge price differences. Remember that the SA guy pays less in wages and rent.

 

And yes, with the Rand's impressive recovery, why are we not seeing decreases. Yes, you biught some stock at prices you fixed a couple of months ago, but why does that then not hold when it goes the other way?

 

Until I understand valid reasons why, I will buy online and pay for fitting if I cannot donit myself

Shipping rates for China-EU or China-UK vs China-RSA (40-foot container) is a big difference.

 

• EU/UK is about $300
• RSA about $1050 - $1300 (depending on who one uses as the freight forwarder).

 

Volume-wise, how many more containers would Europe/UK order vs SA market? Population in Europe is way more than RSA, so orders would be way more. Therefore guys like CRC, Bike24 have buying power compared to the guys in SA.

[Frosty]

Garmin is actually a perfect example, this is a company that basis its reputation on service and no quibble customer relations,... I can honestly say its world class.

 

Sony is another, I bought a Sony camera from SA with me, something went wrong with the LED, I took it to a local Sony shop here and showed them the issue, the guy picked up the phone, made one call, tossed it into the box, said its a common problem and gave me another, he even gave me a new set of batteries, when I looked at him quite incredulously he said "theres batteries in your old camera right?" Yes I said, he shrugged shoulders, So?

 

Just as an aside, I bought my Harley over as well and it was still under the SA warranty, I went to the local shop and after a bit of paperwork to prove it was actually mine the warranty was approved and is carried here now, No issues, No questions.

 

So I guess what I am really saying is I will support those suppliers who support me, Garmin, Sony, Harley etc.  

Nikon's 2 year warranty is also valid anywhere in the world, providing the camera was purchased from an authorised Nikon dealer.

[fanievb]

A Christiaan. You are a shop SA shop onwer right, albeit online. Why do you not give us some real world case study examples of why you are SO much more expensive than CRC and the like.

 

No one here will argue against clearly stated facts. Will it change buying decisions, maybe not, but it will at least raise some credibility

 

because most local shops need to buy from coolheat, omnico and the likes i.e. the local agent.

 

the agents inflate the price which the LBS has to pass on to the consumer.

 

don't be mad at the retailer, the agents are the problem.

 

e.g. that's why CWC (who imports directly) can charged R300 for a pressfit BB and the LBS best price is R600 (with friends and family discount) the LBS cost price is more that what CWC can sell it for and you cant expect the LBS to sell something below cost.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Nikon's 2 year warranty is also valid anywhere in the world, providing the camera was purchased from an authorised Nikon dealer.

Yes, correct, I know because I bought a Nikonos underwater camera from the local SA agents many years ago, on a trip overseas it flooded and Nikon replaced it without a quible.

 

I think I read somewhere Phillips does the same with an international warranty, but I have no first hand knowledge of it.

[Frosty]

I think Garmin is a perfect example of a company that got this right. I bought my first Garmin overseas because it was cheaper, much cheaper. I broke it and Garmin SA treated me so well I have since bought every other Garmin locally because the value is greater, even if the price isn't. 

I posted the following in 2012 - link here, and I think it backs up what you said about Garmin.

 

Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:45

There was a similar thread comparing Garmin and some other (don't recall the name) car GPS... I made a comment that I've been through 3 Nuvi's and every time it was replaced without any questions asked.

 

One reply to my comment, said "if Garmin is so good, why would it have to be repaired/replaced"

 

That's not the point (being good), it's the after sales SERVICE that counts. It is an electronic device and can be affected by a number of factors. The fact that

 

Quality, Price, Service - pick any two

If i can afford it, I'll sacrifice PRICE.

 

For the record, have never owned anything but Garmin, so cannot comment on the rest, although i have tried using a friend's (that other car GPS) 

[fanievb]

Local, as they're a SA store. CPA would cover purchases from them, and they'd need to back themselves. 

 

Manufacturers aren't getting involved due to CPA, and CPA does not protect you with goods purchased outside of SA. That's purely up to the discretion of the local distributor, or, as in the cases above, the manufacturer themselves telling the local distro to stop being a **** From what I understand, at least. 

 

I agree that it shouldn't be that way, as it's perpetuating a sort of protectionist environment. 

 

CPA covers them, but they carry the warranty themselves. i.e. if your Shimano groupset needs warranty replacement has to be done through them and not the agents in compliance with Sec 25 of the CPA

 

*I know you know this, just stating it for other readers*

 

 

 

 

 

The authorised distributor of these products is under no obligation to honour the manufacturer's guarantees/warrantees or to provide aftersales service. Chris Willemse Cycles and our international suppliers will still carry the normal warrantees/guarantees of these products, of which some may be "conspicuous", for the duration of its warranty as well as providing after-sales service. (In accordance to CPA s25-2)

 

[Frosty]

Yes, correct, I know because I bought a Nikonos underwater camera from the local SA agents many years ago, on a trip overseas it flooded and Nikon replaced it without a quible.

 

I think I read somewhere Phillips does the same with an international warranty, but I have no first hand knowledge of it.

My wife bought me a Phillips rechargable shaver - think it was last year's birthday.

It has a 3 year warranty (worldwide), and because I registered the serial number online, they've extended it to 4 years.

[Patchelicious]

I think a couple of things are being confused/blurred here.

 

Firstly, no local suppliers are actively TRYING to screw you. They are trying to run a business and make a profit, just like the businesses that you work for. Now some people might get "screwed" but not every single cyclist in this country is some victim. We as consumers are however alway looking at how we can screw them, shopping online and comparing quotes and always quoting the lowest one. Our consumer behavior is big contributor to this issue.

 

Let's also not confuse ideological and practical arguments. Also, we can't switch between them to prove the other, they are very different debates.

 

Then simply because some overseas online shop is running a special where you can get an item dirt cheap, that doesn't mean you are being over charged locally. I might as well accuse Woolies of raping me because I can go online and buy milk at R5 per liter from some Ukrainian online store. Some online stores are CHEAPER than RRP, it's not that the local guys are necessarily more expensive. The lowest price on the Internet cannot be used as the baseline.

 

If the brand you are buying does not support global warranties, that's not the fault of the LBS or local supplier. If you buy something direct from CRC and it breaks, and you then take it to the local people, who must now invest time and money into resolving an issue where they never had an upside, who pays for that? Must they work for free? Ok then please go ask your boss for a decrease and tell him that you want to give him a hour free per day. Some of them might do it in the desperate hope that you might become a customer, but you will probably won't and will continue buying as cheaply as possible wherever they may be.

 

The solution is global warranties, but guess what, that risk will get calculated and priced into the products too. Local suppliers would submit warranty claims to HQ who would then rebate the supplier. That rebate is not going to be paid out of petty cash, they will budget for it.

 

So this is a case where we cannot have our cake and eat it. If you want super cheap don't expect the same kind of support.