A bit of Rand honesty

[agentgreen]

Just a question or two about bike travel.

 

A quick scan of the travel forum (and related searches) seem to suggest that most members travel to Europe and the US/Canada for biking holidays, but with the Rand taking more dives than Louis Suarez how are you all affording this? Surely with the exchange rates so bad this sort of thing is just not viable anymore? So I'd like to know how much (in Randela terms) are these trips running you (if you feel like sharing). Also noted a rise in the amount of local travel topics (which is both great and probably related to said currency conundrums) but as an avid enthusiast it makes me curious as to why no one has mentioned South America? Its perfect for altitude conscious roadies (Serious altitude and ridiculous climbs), the mountain biking (though trails are a lot rougher) is unparalleled (truly some of the most spectacular riding imaginable), the currencies (though almost all better than the Rand) all convert far more favorably then Europe, the USA or Canada and although I'm sure most South Africans are (rightly) turned off by the language barrier most locals are much friendlier to South Africans than they are to Europeans or Yankees (as they are referred to). There's also the advantage of some amazing cultural tourism and fantastic hiking. So why aren't more of us using our feeble Randela's more wisely and really getting bang for the buck? (note I'm not including Chile in this as its far too first world and stupidly expensive) 

 

 

[capediver]

Everyone's opinion of expensive is relative...what would you budget for a trip to Europe? What would a similar trip (ie like for like...flights, accommodation, lifts passes/shuttles, maintained trails, trail networks) to South America cost?

[michaelbiker]

I am currently in Italy, riding and working remotely at the same time. The costs aren't actually that bad when you get here but it varies greatly depending on your location. Pizza and beers for 2 in our local restaurant in Umbria run us less than 20 euro and the food in the supermarkets is also not too expensive, roughly 1.2 to 1.5 times more than Pick 'n Pay. But it does depend on what you buy and your location of course. Other than pizza, eating out is about the same in the more quiet areas to SA - bearing in mind that there is no need to tip.

 

The big cities like Rome and Milan are VERY expensive and the north of Italy is expensive too, roughly 1.5 times more than home but the riding is incredible so it's a trade off. If you stay outside of the main centers and rent a car long term, it is affordable and in fact compared to South America and South Africa probably on par. I found South America (Chile and Argentina) to be more expensive than Italy but we moved around a lot and here we stay in one spot, so travel costs are cheaper. Peru was very cheap however.

 

One other thing to note, if you travel outside of the busy seasons (early spring and late autumn) you can quite often negotiate really good rates for accommodation and there are some good deals on flights.

 

All in all our daily budget is around 60 euros pd including accommodation, car and food but excluding flights for 2 people. Flights were super cheap on Ethiopian Airlines (R5500 each) Contrast that with South America our budget was around USD100 per day excluding a car but including busses.

[DIPSLICK]

Will follow with interest, but as asked above,,, how long is a piece of string?

 

The hub has done a few household income surveys in the past and the ratios if I recall were pretty high, remember biking is the new golf. Yes there are lower income people in love with cycling but I think the hub has more than its fair share of coin.

 

I know people who save a year for amazing trips that takes months to plan, and I know people who sit at lunch and decide to do stoopid expensive spur of the moment trips climb on a plane and buy clothes when they arrive

 

Why does everyone do the USA EUrope trips rather than the cheaper off the track trails,,,easier question,,,,it not as easy and predictable to book and arrange the special trips. To book to go to Europe u need limited internet skills credit card and cheers you off

and then there is skill set as you say much tougher climbs and rides not everyone here are mountain goats, with extreme biking skillz

 

It's like doing the epic vs joberg2c

 

Joberg2c you pull in and wing it

Epic "little different"

 

Going to be fun to watch the chirps on this one

Edited April 19, 2017 by DIPSLICK

[Ride Rate Review]

Overseas trips are not as expensive as you think.

 

The rand to euro was worse when I went last year and my whole trip all in costed 17.5 -18k.

You just need to pre plan & put in the extra work to find the deals... they are out there.

 

We went for 2 weeks riding in Morzine

[capediver]

France (Morzine) High season:

11 days

10 days riding the biggest bike park in Europe, 12 resorts, with 650km of trails and no uphill pedalling thanks to ski lifts (21 of them, 12 for bikes)...I've done over 8000m of descent in a day!!

Meet. greet and bike transfer Geneva return

Accommodation (single room with shower) including full brekkie, two braais, and 3 course supper and the cheapest beer in town

Flights (Qatar...you could probably do better)

Visa and insurance

All in : +- R23000

Extras:

Two meals in town (staff are off every Weds)

As much Mutzig beer you think you can hanlde and still ride with some control the next day....

Snacks on the hill (Linderets burger, chips and coke €10)

Free:

water everywhere

fun

falls

[fanievb]

does robben island count as overseas?

I will travel abroad one day, once I've traveled a bit more in the beautiful RSA
 

[BaGearA]

I am currently in Italy, riding and working remotely at the same time. The costs aren't actually that bad when you get here but it varies greatly depending on your location. Pizza and beers for 2 in our local restaurant in Umbria run us less than 20 euro and the food in the supermarkets is also not too expensive, roughly 1.2 to 1.5 times more than Pick 'n Pay. But it does depend on what you buy and your location of course. Other than pizza, eating out is about the same in the more quiet areas to SA - bearing in mind that there is no need to tip.

 

The big cities like Rome and Milan are VERY expensive and the north of Italy is expensive too, roughly 1.5 times more than home but the riding is incredible so it's a trade off. If you stay outside of the main centers and rent a car long term, it is affordable and in fact compared to South America and South Africa probably on par. I found South America (Chile and Argentina) to be more expensive than Italy but we moved around a lot and here we stay in one spot, so travel costs are cheaper. Peru was very cheap however.

 

One other thing to note, if you travel outside of the busy seasons (early spring and late autumn) you can quite often negotiate really good rates for accommodation and there are some good deals on flights.

 

All in all our daily budget is around 60 euros pd including accommodation, car and food but excluding flights for 2 people. Flights were super cheap on Ethiopian Airlines (R5500 each) Contrast that with South America our budget was around USD100 per day excluding a car but including busses.

Explain the thing with no tipping ?

 

Are they waiters there just paid decently ?

[Odinson]

Explain the thing with no tipping ?

 

Are they waiters there just paid decently ?

 

Yes, it's a first world country where people such as waiters, retail workers, gardeners, etc. all actually earn a living wage.

 

Same story in Belgium. You tip only when service is exceptional; there is no obligation and it is not expected.

[Jurgens Smit]

Yes, it's a first world country where people such as waiters, retail workers, gardeners, etc. all actually earn a living wage.

 

Same story in Belgium. You tip only when service is exceptional; there is no obligation and it is not expected.

 

What are the living costs like in Belgium?  ITO Food and public transport what would your daily budget need to be? A rough estimation.

 

When I was in the UK last year we worked at +- 100 pound a day pp.

[FrikkieMeyer87]

France (Morzine) High season:

11 days

10 days riding the biggest bike park in Europe, 12 resorts, with 650km of trails and no uphill pedalling thanks to ski lifts (21 of them, 12 for bikes)...I've done over 8000m of descent in a day!!

Meet. greet and bike transfer Geneva return

Accommodation (single room with shower) including full brekkie, two braais, and 3 course supper and the cheapest beer in town

Flights (Qatar...you could probably do better)

Visa and insurance

All in : +- R23000

Extras:

Two meals in town (staff are off every Weds)

As much Mutzig beer you think you can hanlde and still ride with some control the next day....

Snacks on the hill (Linderets burger, chips and coke €10)

Free:

water everywhere

fun

falls

 

Flippit. This sounds like the trip to make. In comparison, as a scuba diver, 7 days aboard a liveaboard yacht in the Red Sea including all meals, air fills, and 4x dives a day works out to around R30,000pp. That is pretty achievable if it's just one person. But if you're a diving family and you all of a sudden have to dish out that amount x2 or x3, it all of a sudden becomes a lot less affordable. So context is key. If I stayed alone for instance, I could do this annually if I was committed to it and saved properly. Married with the first kid on the way, not so much

 

Yes, it's a first world country where people such as waiters, retail workers, gardeners, etc. all actually earn a living wage.

 

Same story in Belgium. You tip only when service is exceptional; there is no obligation and it is not expected.

 

My dad stays in New Zealand and it's the same story there. I met a girl who moved there from Durban and was klapping the till at McDonalds, and with her salary, she was easily able to rent a flat and bought herself a car. Over there, you can actually make a living on minimum wage.

[pe3nguin]

What are the living costs like in Belgium?  ITO Food and public transport what would your daily budget need to be? A rough estimation.

 

When I was in the UK last year we worked at +- 100 pound a day pp.

Public transport day pass (within a city) is €6

Food from Lidl or Aldi will set you back €10 a day

Eating out and drinking beer will obviously hurt more

[michaelbiker]

Explain the thing with no tipping ?

 

Are they waiters there just paid decently ?

No tipping at all. In fact the other evening we left a tip because we were actually in a rush to leave and the waiter came running after us down the street with our change!

 

People are paid properly here. Most of the time in the smaller restaurants the waiter is the son or the daughter of the owner who is cooking dinner in the kitchen.

[Tigershel]

SE Asia is another possible touring destination, if you are prepared to live local and wing it a bit. 

The big question is finding affordable airfare.

 

I have done the Philippines: you need to stay out of the big cities as traffic and finding your way around is a bit ridiculous, but the Visayas (central group of islands) and northern Mindanao are very affordable.

 

I met a German who rides there for 3 to 5 months every year, costs him $10 a day, including activities like the odd skin diving trip.  Mostly rough camping (he doesn't use a tent...) with a basic hotel / boarding house every few days.

 

The trick is eat local food, stay out of tourist hotels, and travel as the locals do (ferries, buses).

 

You will meet a ton more people that way as well.

[Nokka]

I try and do a bike touring holiday every year. So this is a bit different than most here, where you go to a central village and ride day rides with a road bike out and back for a week and then return. 

 

My trips fall in the same price category, about R20 000 or even less, but this would be for say 3 weeks. The difference would be that I camp most nights, and sometimes even stealth camp. In that way you can build up on your weekly budget and then treat yourself to a hostel, or these days a B&B or even hotel. 

 

On my last trip, September to Greece, I used Booking.com extensively for the first time. It was the end of season, so landlords would advertise last minute deals for single rooms constantly. I stayed in beach front rooms for 20 euro a night. But I preferred B&B's. 

 

Usually I would start my planning in the beginning of the year, decide on a destination and time frame, and target September/October for Europe. It is still hot in the south and Med, but out of season thus quieter and cheaper. Then you pay early for your air ticket, and take your own bike with in a cardboard box. That's say R7 500, but you could get cheaper deals. The rest is up to yourself re how much luxury you want. But the 'net and apps really have taken the sting out of the tail for the greedy hoteliers. 

[agentgreen]

Yes, it's a first world country where people such as waiters, retail workers, gardeners, etc. all actually earn a living wage.

 

Same story in Belgium. You tip only when service is exceptional; there is no obligation and it is not expected.

Third world Brazil and Argentine also pay their waiters (you still tip in Argentine though!?)