WTF CSA?

[Patchelicious]

Are the political masters perhaps ALSO the problem?

Fixed, not an either or.

[gogo@]

...

 

It still leaves me wondering how they hand out the fines, at the event, if they are not legally allowed to be present.

They had an "agent" there for sure, checking out who was in the A batch, who had a relative also starting in that group.  At least one who was on a mission.

[JA-Q001]

Ok ok, I would not really do that, last time I held a licensed was in 2010, so I wont get into that situation. 

Just trying to make a point that there will be some grey areas with results.

 

 

It still leaves me wondering how they hand out the fines, at the event, if they are not legally allowed to be present.

 

 

Only got an email on Thursday after the event after results were finalized. The email contained an invoice stating the fine and transgression. They would have used racetec results, easy to cross reference finishers ID numbers to the ID numbers listed in their licensed rider list.

[Tankman]

Only got an email on Thursday after the event after results were finalized. The email contained an invoice stating the fine and transgression. They would have used racetec results, easy to cross reference finishers ID numbers to the ID numbers listed in their licensed rider list.

 

So they are still sticking their noses in the business of non-sanctioned events?

 

I get it, the licensed riders broke the rules!

 

From what I see, the court was pretty clear that they should keep away and out of non-sanctioned events.  But they still go snooping around (and they have some riders fined while still at the event)

 

No wonder there is a feeling of bad taste from the riders.

[DieselnDust]

They can't act in their official capacity at the non sanctioned events but they can look around and take notes as a spectator and act on "tip off's" on Monday.

 

SS style

[Rolling Stone]

My son crashed at BMX Nationals in April. Went to hospital in Ambulance etc etc. When I tried to claim a few weeks back I was told sorry, no money to pay, please claim from your own medical aid. And yes, I'm a fully paid up member, in fact hold 4 memberships with wife and kids as we all ride.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would Personally like to follow up on this.

Are you at nationals this year?

So this would have been round this time last year?

 

Please PM me the details, his name as well as CSA registration number.

[WrightJnr]

I would Personally like to follow up on this.

Are you at nationals this year?

So this would have been round this time last year?

 

Please PM me the details, his name as well as CSA registration number.

Hi. Will PM you when back in town. Unfortunately no, not going to be in PMB this weekend. I walked away from BMX after the Alrode NAGS earlier this year.

[Rolling Stone]

So they are still sticking their noses in the business of non-sanctioned events?

 

I get it, the licensed riders broke the rules!

 

From what I see, the court was pretty clear that they should keep away and out of non-sanctioned events.  But they still go snooping around (and they have some riders fined while still at the event)

 

No wonder there is a feeling of bad taste from the riders.

 (and they have some riders fined while still at the event)

If this is true, CSA are now bringing their A game. Would like to see one of those communications or emails.

 

I had almost given up hope that they would ever act. Almost joined PPA   

[gogo@]

 (and they have some riders fined while still at the event)

If this is true, CSA are now bringing their A game. Would like to see one of those communications or emails.

 

I had almost given up hope that they would ever act. Almost joined PPA   

Like this, I foresee a bigger split than there already is.  The rules are made to suit a very small part of the cycling community and nothing is being done to bridge the gap.  Instead, it will get worse.  Hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

[DJR]

I understand that if you want to play the game, you have to abide by the rules. This goes equally for CSA having to play by UCI rules and they in turn probably play by some WADA and Olympic rules etc. 

 

But what exactly is the reason, the motivation, behind the rule that forbids individual riders from riding in an unsanctioned race? 

 

In this day and age of individual freedoms and freedom of choice and association, it seems oddly out of date.

 

It seems to me that it is a rule more to protect the monopoly and power of the governing bodies than that of the individual or even the greater good of the sport. 

 

Right? Wrong?

[DieselnDust]

I understand that if you want to play the game, you have to abide by the rules. This goes equally for CSA having to play by UCI rules and they in turn probably play by some WADA and Olympic rules etc. 

 

But what exactly is the reason, the motivation, behind the rule that forbids individual riders from riding in an unsanctioned race? 

 

In this day and age of individual freedoms and freedom of choice and association, it seems oddly out of date.

 

It seems to me that it is a rule more to protect the monopoly and power of the governing bodies than that of the individual or even the greater good of the sport. 

 

Right? Wrong?

 

 

this is continually debated and is a throw back to when racing and gambling was intimately intertwined. The rule in effect says that when you take out a license to participate in the sport under IOC banner and member organisations then they own the rights to what you can participate in. Much like when you work for a corporate and they place restrictions on what sort of external work you can do. Archaic maybe but the precedent is everywhere.

 

Breaking away from the system will require a very large precentage of the population of cyclists to shift away from the IOC - UCI - National body system to an independant system.

to enable this they would ned to convince the hole value chain of Internatiopnal cycling (manufacturers, marketers, event owners, riders etc ) to shift from the IOC system to what ever the new system is.

 

But ultimately once that grows and companies/individuals/nations/ invest money into the new breakaway system it is highly likely we will be right where we started....

 

So this distills down to 

1) make the present work by convincing better people to stand up and participate in the governance of the sport

 

2) find a venture capitalist to fund and organise a totally new system where the structures are more equitable.

 

3) other options?

[River Rat]

So you love watching Saffers on the world stage?

They sadly won't be able to compete if it was not for CSA's existence. We can not enter any riders into World Cups if your organisation is not recognised by the UCi. 

 

 

Well then you have no dog in the fight so why comment? You have no vested interest in racing or fun ride events so maybe the energy is better used for trail advocacy?

 

 

Well good for you .

You don’t think that’s a bit selfish towards the people that do take this sport seriously and do and and try and compete internationally though ?

Right so if I read between the lines the success of CSA is dependent on the involvement of the cycling community as a whole. We can argue whether those that support CSA and whose cycling careers are dependent on it equate to 10% or not, but you have to acknowledge a huge majority don't. My earlier post stated my opinion as one the majority that I cannot see any benefit to me from CSA and looking at your responses it looks like you are not even attempting to bring me on board. Sharkie2 and Milkman tried the guilt trip while DND is basically telling me to shut up we don't need your opinion only your money. May I suggest a Dale Carnegie course?

[Pieter-za]

ASA membership imposes the same kind of restriction, you are not allowed to compete in the 5k basaar fun run:

 

https://athletics.org.za/2018-licensing-form/ 

 

[brumby]

I understand that if you want to play the game, you have to abide by the rules. This goes equally for CSA having to play by UCI rules and they in turn probably play by some WADA and Olympic rules etc. 

 

​The UCI cannot overrule the South African Constitution - This is why the FIM and FIA backed out of the MSA versus Womza wars

 

But what exactly is the reason, the motivation, behind the rule that forbids individual riders from riding in an unsanctioned race?

 

In this day and age of individual freedoms and freedom of choice and association, it seems oddly out of date.

 

CSA's actions are illegal and violate your freedom of choice and association and their actions are in contravention of the monopolies act among st others. CSA needs to be challenged in court and I still believe that fraud charges need to be laid against them for the insurance monies that were used for salaries.

 

It seems to me that it is a rule more to protect the monopoly and power of the governing bodies than that of the individual or even the greater good of the sport. 

 

Spot on 

 

Right? Wrong?

 

If there are any riders out there whom have been suspended or fined for riding in non sanctioned events and would be looking at taking CSA head on - I am prepared to do the following:

 

1) Pay for the first consultation with a legal team that has experience and success regarding this matter.

2) Contribute R20K to a legal fund,

[DieselnDust]

Right so if I read between the lines the success of CSA is dependent on the involvement of the cycling community as a whole. We can argue whether those that support CSA and whose cycling careers are dependent on it equate to 10% or not, but you have to acknowledge a huge majority don't. My earlier post stated my opinion as one the majority that I cannot see any benefit to me from CSA and looking at your responses it looks like you are not even attempting to bring me on board. Sharkie2 and Milkman tried the guilt trip while DND is basically telling me to shut up we don't need your opinion only your money. May I suggest a Dale Carnegie course?

 

 

Not everything in life presents a strong enough business case for the whole community to buy into.

You want to be brought on board but you only want to ride your bike. So then why do you want to be on board?

Only you can answer that! Once you know the answer then there is a discussion.

But if you want a sales pitch I strongly suggest finding a club in your area that is trying to get young underprivileged children off the streets and into sport to assist with developing options for them. go for a few rides with this club and get to know the people and understand what they are trying to do.

Look at the work Quebeka is trying to do.

Then ask yourself would these kids have an option of becoming pro cyclists if something like CSA didn't exist?

 By simply stating "i just want to ride my bike!" is a valid choice but don't try and tear down houses that are trying to do something.

Part of the problem or part of the solution?

Which side of the fence do you want to be?

[River Rat]

Not everything in life presents a strong enough business case for the whole community to buy into.

You want to be brought on board but you only want to ride your bike. So then why do you want to be on board?

Only you can answer that! Once you know the answer then there is a discussion.

But if you want a sales pitch I strongly suggest finding a club in your area that is trying to get young underprivileged children off the streets and into sport to assist with developing options for them. go for a few rides with this club and get to know the people and understand what they are trying to do.

Look at the work Quebeka is trying to do.

Then ask yourself would these kids have an option of becoming pro cyclists if something like CSA didn't exist?

 By simply stating "i just want to ride my bike!" is a valid choice but don't try and tear down houses that are trying to do something.

Part of the problem or part of the solution?

Which side of the fence do you want to be?

I'm not sure what role you play at CSA if any. But here's the problem you guys / CSA don't listen! So 90% (my estimate) of the cycling community really only want to ride their bikes and you would rather ignore them? So you don't need us? Really? If you're trying to promote CSA to someone like me you need to point out what CSA is doing right. You need to change my perception from CSA being a corrupt, incompetent and heavy handed organisation. My experience of CSA as someone who is forced to interact with them on the odd occasion that I do a race sanctioned by them, has left me with a very bad taste. I have watched them pull a lady out of the start chute in F batch because she was wearing a top without sleeves at Babbas Lodge race. I have personally been pulled aside and asked to produce my CSA license at the start of Sani by overzealous officials wanting to make an example of me, by the way CSA I'm still waiting for that apology. You quote Qhubeka as a good exmple of what CSA does, really I shudder to think what this wonderful initiative would be like if MTN was not involved. And by the way I have happily donated money to them and I will do so into the future as long as CSA keeps it's grubby hands off the money. So from my perspective CSA is the problem and if you care to read what I have written I don't sit on fences.