WTF CSA?

[Skubarra]

This thread (like most on the Hub) is going in circles.

 

 

I always thought the point of a hub on a bicycle is to go around in circles.

[Patchelicious]

This is really constructive 

Calm down man, it was a joke.

[DieselnDust]

The point of Bikehub threads is to rant and rave about things no one has a desire to fix.

Much easier to take the moral high road and builda fan club for "likes".

Its the social media revolution.

 

How many people on Bikehub belong to a cycling club other than one that provides them access to a trail network? i.e> Tygerberg MTB or Tokai MTB

[Patchelicious]

Yes, but are the ones who stuffed it up still there?

 

 

Does that really matter so much to you?

AS long as the leadership is strong, accountable and has a plan that includes good governance then even the people who stuffed up can make a useful contribution.

If there was theft then thieves must go serve their time atoning for their sins

 

 

I am only affiliated as a member so I can't comment on what happens at an executive management level. But if you're really interested then read here: https://www.cyclingsa.com/governance/

 

there's definitely a few people in the management structure that need to be removed. The organisation needs strong leadership from the top down. talkers need to be replaced with doers who can talk.

At a regional level, WPCycling is doing an admirable job even it is not without its own troubles. All the WPcycling events I've participated have been well run and good value for money.

 

You cannot have a good CSA without first building a strong regional body. What are you okes doing to support your regional bodies?

 

No they don't,  as long as the leadership is strong, accountable and has a plan that includes good governance then even these people can make a useful contribution.

[Shebeen]

I don't think they will even claim at the moment their calendar is good

indeed.

 

I listed origin or trails, DC and munga as not on the calender.

the problem is that if it is near the end of the month it doesn't fit on the page, and there is no button for page 2. so you have to use the filter to weed out some results to get to see races there.

found OoT and DC that way.

but the munga is not listed.

[Escapee..]

I guess you selectively decided not to read the 9 page minutes of the National Cycling Convention of the CSA that ran from 09h45 to 13h00 and therefore the AGM was merely a formality?

 

My bad, nothing selective I just didnt read it

 

Original post edited

[DJR]

.................

 

How many people on Bikehub belong to a cycling club other than one that provides them access to a trail network? i.e> Tygerberg MTB or Tokai MTB

Perhaps CSA should see what they can learn from clubs/associations that are successful and can get thousands to join voluntarily and nogal pay money for it as well (Tygerberg MTB is a good example).

 

The world is changing, frighteningly quickly! Old ways of doing and belonging no longer work. The old style knitting/bowls/chess/cycling club must evolve in order to stay relevant. CSAs' place in cycling cannot be assured by doing things that worked 50 years ago. To keep relying on an old structure of clubs, regions, provinces, country etc may lead to a slow but sure death if the grassroots/clubs die or become irrelevant because people bypass them and find other ways to associate with their cycling peers. 

 

It is for CSA to come up with a plan that will make them survive and thrive.

 

My 2c, and I really don't have a direct interest here. 

[Kranswurm]

Perhaps CSA should see what they can learn from clubs/associations that are successful and can get thousands to join voluntarily and nogal pay money for it as well (Tygerberg MTB is a good example).

 

The world is changing, frighteningly quickly! Old ways of doing and belonging no longer work. The old style knitting/bowls/chess/cycling club must evolve in order to stay relevant. CSAs' place in cycling cannot be assured by doing things that worked 50 years ago. To keep relying on an old structure of clubs, regions, provinces, country etc may lead to a slow but sure death if the grassroots/clubs die or become irrelevant because people bypass them and find other ways to associate with their cycling peers.

 

It is for CSA to come up with a plan that will make them survive and thrive.

 

My 2c, and I really don't have a direct interest here.

As far as I am aware UCI pretty much dictates how cycling must be run and if it is not we lose our affiliation

CSA are not a club

[DieselnDust]

Perhaps CSA should see what they can learn from clubs/associations that are successful and can get thousands to join voluntarily and nogal pay money for it as well (Tygerberg MTB is a good example).

 

The world is changing, frighteningly quickly! Old ways of doing and belonging no longer work. The old style knitting/bowls/chess/cycling club must evolve in order to stay relevant. CSAs' place in cycling cannot be assured by doing things that worked 50 years ago. To keep relying on an old structure of clubs, regions, provinces, country etc may lead to a slow but sure death if the grassroots/clubs die or become irrelevant because people bypass them and find other ways to associate with their cycling peers. 

 

It is for CSA to come up with a plan that will make them survive and thrive.

 

My 2c, and I really don't have a direct interest here. 

 

Perhaps CSA should see what they can learn from clubs/associations that are successful and can get thousands to join voluntarily and nogal pay money for it as well (Tygerberg MTB is a good example).

 

The world is changing, frighteningly quickly! Old ways of doing and belonging no longer work. The old style knitting/bowls/chess/cycling club must evolve in order to stay relevant. CSAs' place in cycling cannot be assured by doing things that worked 50 years ago. To keep relying on an old structure of clubs, regions, provinces, country etc may lead to a slow but sure death if the grassroots/clubs die or become irrelevant because people bypass them and find other ways to associate with their cycling peers. 

 

It is for CSA to come up with a plan that will make them survive and thrive.

 

My 2c, and I really don't have a direct interest here. 

 

 

Yip evolution is necessary. Perhaps they need to reach cyclists more directly but then they would in effect be a PPA type organisation which would fall outside of the UCI requirements for a recognized body that provides the platform for IOC and UCI accredited competition.

 

But for now the structure of having a racing license that is issued by an affiliated Cycling Club to participate in regional competition that allows access to competition at a national level is the structure that is mandated.

 

Clubs struggle with relevance as less people are interested in club or regional racing than they were 15 years ago. The easy access to information is part of the problem here because 15 years ago SMS discussions were cumbersome and opaque. WhatsApp and Google have made it much easier for the layman to communicate with pals and organize an "event" outside of the banner of a club.

 

MTB in the western Cape has had one of its most successful years  in terms of organised races. The WPcycling winter league was very well attended the last few years.

this is despite CSA being a shambles. This would not have been possible without dedicated and passionate clubs supporting WPcycling.

 

So as long as the current structures that are mandated by the IOC and UCI are maintained a small organisation like CSA is going to find it hard to compete with the PPA's of this world.

Perhaps Lance Armstrong is right and cycling needs to divorce from the IOC and UCI and fom a new and separate body but then what?

 

So I agree CSA needs a survival and rejuvenation plan but it also needs to be supported. We can't cry for support from CSA for riders venturing abroad whilst crying "Down with the CSA".

Yes it needs a people overhaul but not all are bad apples

[River Rat]

Perhaps the problem lies in the way CSA sanctions events, whatever they're doing now simply alienates them from their clients and potential clients.

[Milkman]

Most of us here on Hubland are Mamils ( me too ) that don't give a crap about racing licenses and whether a race is sanctioned or not . We just wanna ride our bikes and try and get to the finish line more or less in one piece. We are also rather resentful towards being told what to do by someone that we feel has wasted "our " money .

 

And I get that .

 

BUT , that is a very selfish way of going about doing the sport we love so much . 

 

Currently we need CSA . Without it there is no way for the few of our pro's that can compete internationally to do so . Or should we tell Alan - sorry boet , you had a lekker ride at Worlds this year , but seeing that I have beef with the way CSA ran their business in the past , I am gonna go out of may way to make sure they don't get any money from me or anyone else I know ?? Just to make sure that CSA fails even more and I can then point a finger and go : Ha Ha yea , I told you it won't work without my R35 !

 

Come on guys ???

 

I have a daughter that has competed at World Champs as a junior , and she is working really hard to try and make sure she will one day be able to go to Worlds again as an U/23 rider and maybe one day as an elite also .

Will it be okay to deny her any chance to go ever again just because some idiots mismanaged CSA in the past ?

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

how do other national cycling federations generate income?

here in the WP, events are organised by the local district road committee via clubs. it is not mass participation but caters for the competitive cyclists of which most of us are no matter the age.

this year, if you pre-entered online it was R180 to race. break even for an event is around the 120 participants. yes , levies are paid over to CSA. most races are run at a profit because volunteers give up their spare time freely. private event organisers must be coining it taking into consideration their exhorbitant entry fees and the number of entrants. i know for a fact that events held by some educational institutions are their only fund raiser for the year. paying R10 over per rider to CSA is peanuts compared to what they earn in interest alone from early entries and the increase in entry fees from the previous year. i know they must choke (because i do) on paying the levies money over to a national body that does nothing run the event. WP pay over levies so we can look at our clubs and cyclists in the eye and tell them 'we paid our dues'.

some events donate most of their profits to charities that are so divorced from sport it is unbelievable.  

[Patchelicious]

Most of us here on Hubland are Mamils ( me too ) that don't give a crap about racing licenses and whether a race is sanctioned or not . We just wanna ride our bikes and try and get to the finish line more or less in one piece. We are also rather resentful towards being told what to do by someone that we feel has wasted "our " money .

 

And I get that .

 

BUT , that is a very selfish way of going about doing the sport we love so much . 

 

Currently we need CSA . Without it there is no way for the few of our pro's that can compete internationally to do so . Or should we tell Alan - sorry boet , you had a lekker ride at Worlds this year , but seeing that I have beef with the way CSA ran their business in the past , I am gonna go out of may way to make sure they don't get any money from me or anyone else I know ?? Just to make sure that CSA fails even more and I can then point a finger and go : Ha Ha yea , I told you it won't work without my R35 !

 

Come on guys ???

 

I have a daughter that has competed at World Champs as a junior , and she is working really hard to try and make sure she will one day be able to go to Worlds again as an U/23 rider and maybe one day as an elite also .

Will it be okay to deny her any chance to go ever again just because some idiots mismanaged CSA in the past ?

Get hold of Rebecca at Support SA Talent maybe they can help with your daughter?

 

https://www.supportsatalent.co.za

 

People can also contribute to athletes directly.

[River Rat]

Most of us here on Hubland are Mamils ( me too ) that don't give a crap about racing licenses and whether a race is sanctioned or not . We just wanna ride our bikes and try and get to the finish line more or less in one piece. We are also rather resentful towards being told what to do by someone that we feel has wasted "our " money .

 

And I get that .

 

BUT , that is a very selfish way of going about doing the sport we love so much . 

 

Currently we need CSA . Without it there is no way for the few of our pro's that can compete internationally to do so . Or should we tell Alan - sorry boet , you had a lekker ride at Worlds this year , but seeing that I have beef with the way CSA ran their business in the past , I am gonna go out of may way to make sure they don't get any money from me or anyone else I know ?? Just to make sure that CSA fails even more and I can then point a finger and go : Ha Ha yea , I told you it won't work without my R35 !

 

Come on guys ???

 

I have a daughter that has competed at World Champs as a junior , and she is working really hard to try and make sure she will one day be able to go to Worlds again as an U/23 rider and maybe one day as an elite also .

Will it be okay to deny her any chance to go ever again just because some idiots mismanaged CSA in the past ?

I can't argue against your point but this represents perhaps 10% of cycling in SA and until CSA recognise this they're on a hiding to nothing. They need to find a way of giving something back to 90% of us otherwise CSA membership will remain a grudge purchase.

[Rolling Stone]

I am only affiliated as a member so I can't comment on what happens at an executive management level. But if you're really interested then read here: https://www.cyclingsa.com/governance/

 

there's definitely a few people in the management structure that need to be removed. The organisation needs strong leadership from the top down. talkers need to be replaced with doers who can talk.

At a regional level, WPCycling is doing an admirable job even it is not without its own troubles. All the WPcycling events I've participated have been well run and good value for money.

 

You cannot have a good CSA without first building a strong regional body. What are you okes doing to support your regional bodies?

 

Dude how many payed employees do you think run CSA.

It is mostly a bunch of people that give their time freely. 

Unless these guys are hiding somewhere and I have never noticed them. Then sure fire them.

 

CSA is a structure that is supposed to be built up from the ground to put it simply.

 

Starts with member cyclists

Then Clubs

Then Regions

Then Provinces 

and Finally the structures that we like to refer to as CSA.

 

If everyone that has an opinion and wants new management can offer up their valuable management time and get involved with clubs, those clubs in turn get involved at regional level etc etc. you catch my drift.

 

Get involved, there is a lot of work to be done and then one day you could say, hey I was part of that. Or I was part of what made the changes, or at least I tried.

 

Nothing is possible without the support and involvement of the cycling community.

 

Yes CSA need your money, but they also need your support and involvement.

[DieselnDust]

I can't argue against your point but this represents perhaps 10% of cycling in SA and until CSA recognise this they're on a hiding to nothing. They need to find a way of giving something back to 90% of us otherwise CSA membership will remain a grudge purchase.

 

 

Although i too would like to see more of the giving back thingy you mention, CSA is a government body, subsidiary to the SASCOC. See  http://www.sascoc.co.za/members/page/2/

 

Then in the constitution of the CSA clause 12: 

"12. Cycling SA shall manage its internal affairs with total independence and ensure that no third party interferes with its operations. Accordingly, Cycling SA shall remain autonomous and resist all political, religious and financial pressure which may infringe its commitment to abide by the Constitution of the UCI and it shall report to the UCI any external form of interference or attempt at interference."

 

I.e. it should not have sponsors for the funding of operations outside of the National or local government. Equipment sponsors are a different matter.

 

So from a funding perspective, National Government has to provide the funding to run the organisation. Its this way with all other federations.

 

As for representing only 10% of the cycling community....I can't fully agree. There's direct representation and indirect representation. 

The 10% may be direct since these are the guys with racing licenses.

The 90% may be the rest of us but we do switch on to RedBull.TV to watch South Africans participate in World Champs for road, TT and MTB as well as the major Races around the world. Even though the CSA has not supported those SA riders financially, whether direct or through facilitation /introduction to sponsors, they do provide the grassroots racing platform that has enabled those riders to reach the level they are operating at. Without a CSA those riders would hold licenses from other countries cycling federations.

 

What we should be screaming for is good governance and funding for the CSA from Local and National government. But the reality is that until we have more cyclists capable of operating at the level our World Tour and U23 XCO riders are operating we won't get more funding.

 

So in the short term, we have to fund that and hold CSA accountable. Only way to do that is to operate through your regional Cycling body and through your local club.

 

Remember in the not so distant past, PPA was structured under CSA as the recreational body but PPA didn't like this too much because of the state of financial ruin CSA was in. PPA acted to protect the interests of its members ......but did it really. Unintended consequences?