World, where is SA??

[Jewbacca]

When I read the last 2 pages of this thread all I could see was the Fight scene from Anchorman and Brick killing a guy with a trident..... 

[Showtime]

I am conflicted on this.

 

Like Jewbacca I certainly don't need races to enjoy cycling and I don't think being talented at a sport entitles you to government funding.

 

As the same time, I enjoy seeing South Africans performing on the world stage. When Greg or Ashleigh win it feels like we are all winning.

 

As to whether it would be a justifiable expense for a government? Just like a business a country has to put itself out there. If people see South Africans performing it plants a seed and maybe a few years later they visit. Perhaps it gives South African businesses more credibility on the global stage. And if you want South Africans at the sharp end of the results you need to invest in athletes who aren't quite there yet for tomorrow. 

[SwissVan]

I am conflicted on this.

 

Like Jewbacca I certainly don't need races to enjoy cycling and I don't think being talented at a sport entitles you to government funding.

 

As the same time, I enjoy seeing South Africans performing on the world stage. When Greg or Ashleigh win it feels like we are all winning.

 

As to whether it would be a justifiable expense for a government? Just like a business a country has to put itself out there. If people see South Africans performing it plants a seed and maybe a few years later they visit. Perhaps it gives South African businesses more credibility on the global stage. And if you want South Africans at the sharp end of the results you need to invest in athletes who aren't quite there yet for tomorrow.

It's simple

Levy on each race entry, small enough not to be an issue ( ja because someone will complain about it) but enough to make a difference when all added up.

 

Race entries are usualy paid by those who have some sort of interest in racing, so that should solve the issue of taxing those who could not care about racing.

 

And we get Jewbacca n Co to monitor CSA so they don't waste the money! ????

[Patchelicious]

It's simple

Levy on each race entry, small enough not to be an issue ( ja because someone will complain about it) but enough to make a difference when all added up.

 

Race entries are usualy paid by those who have some sort of interest in racing, so that should solve the issue of taxing those who could not care about racing.

 

And we get Jewbacca n Co to monitor CSA so they don't waste the money!

I thought Carbon was doing that?

[SwissVan]

I thought Carbon was doing that?

 

He can monitor Jewbacca

[pe3nguin]

A lot of monitoring going on here. How about a Bikehub crowd funded team for youngsters looking to get to Europe. No watchdog needed, we're an honest bunch 

 

Skip the trusts and the tax deductions and any funny stuff Just hubbers passing it on to the next generation. Cant bypass CSA entirely since they will need those international racing licenses. 

[YetiFan]

Agreed to disagree.

 

But then I did use some of my hard earned air miles to send a cyclist to world's to race in the race this morning - he was still in the front group with a lap and a half to go. Not everything went his way as he could not get off the big blade - he however is very happy with his experiences and is motivated to continue forward and upwards.

 

With your argument Louis Meintjies may never had medals at world's a few years back. Who know if he was not afforded these opportunities if he would have continued with the sport and now successfully to have finished 2 years in a row in 8th spot at the TDF.

 

I for 1 would prefer my hard earned tax money to be used on funding sport instead of 20 billion for Zuma to go to Dubai! As for the rider I helped with his trip on leaving we did not know how he would return to RSA - in the past hour Douglas Ryder / Dimension Data has agreed to allow him on the team bus (a lift) back to Holland. KLM off my miles will do the rest. If you think these cyclist are going just to have a holiday - most of the time they arnt! The truth be told how these guy even do as well as they do mentally I don't know. Less than a week before he was racing he still did not know if he was going as he did not have budget for accommodation. I can assure you been in an organized set up allows you to focus more on the racing - thus allowing better result.

 

I do drive an Nissan Leaf electric car, charged off solar panels at my house - I do agreed on your sentiment on been green.

Couldn't agree more iCycling. I'm actively involved in, committed to and passionate about the renewable energy / sustainability space but I don't think that conflicts at all with human's obsession with going further/faster/better. Recently watched Louis live halfway up the Angliru, and it was one of the greatest experiences I've had for ages. Absolutely love seeing Louis mixing it up with the greats of the sport, every time he goes out. Take a look at some of the youngsters coming up through the ranks in SA cyscling, and I think we have a lot to be excited about as cycling fans. So actually quite happy for my tax money to be spent on that instead of Gupta deals, bailing out SAA, building a new mega coal fired plant or some stupid nuclear deal! Jewbacca, although I don't question your experiences in the sports space, I do think you're being overly cycnical

[J Wakefield]

A lot of monitoring going on here. How about a Bikehub crowd funded team for youngsters looking to get to Europe. No watchdog needed, we're an honest bunch 

 

Skip the trusts and the tax deductions and any funny stuff Just hubbers passing it on to the next generation. Cant bypass CSA entirely since they will need those international racing licenses. 

 

I would personally use those funds to get riders who have proven talent, dedication and work ethic to europe. Wether they are 16 17 or 25 (like Willie) 

 

sending a bunch of kids to europe to run free is far from ethical and a waste of time and money. Three a lot more riders who deserve that opportunity than a bunch of youngsters who are living a dream not the dream. 

[Andrew Steer]

I would personally use those funds to get riders who have proven talent, dedication and work ethic to europe. Wether they are 16 17 or 25 (like Willie) 

 

sending a bunch of kids to europe to run free is far from ethical and a waste of time and money. Three a lot more riders who deserve that opportunity than a bunch of youngsters who are living a dream not the dream. 

 

Agree 100%, this idea of sending numbers for the sake of it is lunacy. Especially in a third world country where the average household income is a tenth of a trip to Europe for a team manager to go hand out bottles.

 

Surely we've got enough of a local scene for riders to prove their worth... if you can't clean up here, then frankly you're very likely not good enough for anything remotely resembling an international career. Prove your mettle here, wipe the floor with our local Pro's and then we'll help you get a seat at the top table...

[J Wakefield]

Agree 100%, this idea of sending numbers for the sake of it is lunacy. Especially in a third world country where the average household income is a tenth of a trip to Europe for a team manager to go hand out bottles.

 

Surely we've got enough of a local scene for riders to prove their worth... if you can't clean up here, then frankly you're very likely not good enough for anything remotely resembling an international career. Prove your mettle here, wipe the floor with our local Pro's and then we'll help you get a seat at the top table...

 

 

Agree with all you said but want to add that in SA you have to be able to sprint, all road races land up a sprint. that is unfair to a rider who is built for Tours and climbs. You need to identify them, collect data and then add them into the "squad" based on their strengths. 

 

Even sending them to Europe can also be tailored. Why send someone like Mornay van Heerden to Belgium where its pan flat and he is a climber? Send him to Spain to race and fill his potential there. 

 

Like in the past these elements don't seem to be taken into account. Its like "cool we sending juniors to europe to stay in a house and race" works for some not for others and then that crushes dreams and mojo. 

[Andrew Steer]

Agree with all you said but want to add that in SA you have to be able to sprint, all road races land up a sprint. that is unfair to a rider who is built for Tours and climbs. You need to identify them, collect data and then add them into the "squad" based on their strengths. 

 

Even sending them to Europe can also be tailored. Why send someone like Mornay van Heerden to Belgium where its pan flat and he is a climber? Send him to Spain to race and fill his potential there. 

 

Like in the past these elements don't seem to be taken into account. Its like "cool we sending juniors to europe to stay in a house and race" works for some not for others and then that crushes dreams and mojo. 

 

You are of course right, horses for courses and all that... Jock and Satelite Classic should still give you a little limelight though and there's also that Mountain biking stuff which has proven very beneficial to many top road cyclists over the years. I still maintain, if you're not cleaning up locally, you're not gonna make it out there. Just look at what a guy like Reinhardt could do here versus overseas. He was an absolute animal here. He's a good rider overseas, and hopefully he will get more chances heading forward - but that gulf is very obvious in my view

[SwissVan]

I would personally use those funds to get riders who have proven talent, dedication and work ethic to europe. Wether they are 16 17 or 25 (like Willie)

 

sending a bunch of kids to europe to run free is far from ethical and a waste of time and money. Three a lot more riders who deserve that opportunity than a bunch of youngsters who are living a dream not the dream.

This is true, seen it happen

 

Had a fairly prominent mtb rider stay at our place (for free) for a few months one summer while they did the XCO World Cup circuit sponsored by parents. Including trip to North America for USA and Canadian rounds.

 

Not long after completing that summer season they basically stopped racing seriously even in SA.

 

A lot of money for a gap year....but at least it was their money

[jcza]

You are of course right, horses for courses and all that... Jock and Satelite Classic should still give you a little limelight though and there's also that Mountain biking stuff which has proven very beneficial to many top road cyclists over the years. I still maintain, if you're not cleaning up locally and you're not gonna make it out there. Just look at what a guy like Reinhardt could do here versus overseas. He was an absolute animal here. He's a good rider overseas, and hopefully he will get more chances heading forward - but that gulf is very obvious in my view

 

I thought its only the guys that can't make it on the road that switch to MTB 

[Icycling]

I would personally use those funds to get riders who have proven talent, dedication and work ethic to europe. Wether they are 16 17 or 25 (like Willie) 

 

sending a bunch of kids to europe to run free is far from ethical and a waste of time and money. Three a lot more riders who deserve that opportunity than a bunch of youngsters who are living a dream not the dream. 

What is proven talent? If you listened to the commentator this past weekend and trusting what they were saying is correct - then Mark Cav did not have what it took to be a Pro. The field you work in or worked in, suggested his "numbers" were not at that level of pro's.

 

How does one measure "desire" after all that is what will make the person / cyclist make it. Froome as an example was not that greatest cyclist while in RSA but his "desire" was there -  he lost a bit of weight (maybe a lot) which surely changed his lab numbers - vo2max and power to weight ratio numbers would have increased. What measurement are 100% correct - probably non.

 

Dedication and work ethic changes in all peoples life - depending on what phase of life they in. All the riders PPA support this year were meant to meet a criteria - trusting the criteria was correct and only those who met this criteria were chosen - then these rider "earned" there spot to try out "living the dream." If they discovered the "dream" was not for them so be it - better sooner than later and thus is also not a waist of time and money. Arguable this should possibly have been funded from a different source - but they "earned" it from PPA.

 

J Wakefeild - hope you noticed NO "I" until now - it was rewritten removing all off them!

[J Wakefield]

This is true, seen it happen

 

Had a fairly prominent mtb rider stay at our place (for free) for a few months one summer while they did the XCO World Cup circuit sponsored by parents. Including trip to North America for USA and Canadian rounds.

 

Not long after completing that summer season they basically stopped racing seriously even in SA.

 

A lot of money for a gap year....but at least it was their money

 

It happens often in all sporting codes and being "pro" is not always what someone ants after realising what it takes both physically or mentally. Is it wrong? No, its not, I always believe in at least try than go "what if" later.

 

The difference is how long are you trying before realising its not going to happen. Over the last 10+ years I've had some insane conversations / fights / tears with parents and kids over this and often get told you the bottom end the pooh barrel cause its not what they want to hear. I've seen parents bond houses, cash in policies etc over and over for their kid to "make it" there is a time when reality has to step in??

 

Ive gone off topic here but this is a major factor in what I had originally posted in giving the opportunity not to anyone who wants to a live dream.

 

If you have been in those circles long enough you know what to look for in a athlete - wether they will or wont make it is always a gamble but you know if that athlete has something special or potential. 

[Fat Boab]

It happens often in all sporting codes and being "pro" is not always what someone ants after realising what it takes both physically or mentally. Is it wrong? No, its not, I always believe in at least try than go "what if" later.

 

The difference is how long are you trying before realising its not going to happen. Over the last 10+ years I've had some insane conversations / fights / tears with parents and kids over this and often get told you the bottom end the pooh barrel cause its not what they want to hear. I've seen parents bond houses, cash in policies etc over and over for their kid to "make it" there is a time when reality has to step in??

 

Ive gone off topic here but this is a major factor in what I had originally posted in giving the opportunity not to anyone who wants to a live dream.

 

If you have been in those circles long enough you know what to look for in a athlete - wether they will or wont make it is always a gamble but you know if that athlete has something special or potential. 

 

Talent scouts in many other sports, no reason why they can't be worthy in cycling as well. British Cycling managed to source plenty of young talent, even late-teenage talent new to cycling based on 'numbers', and they seemed to do ok? Also the British Cycling academy, back in the day, was as much about training attitude, approach to professionalism etc, than it was about on the bike stuff. Plenty of experience and learnings around, if SA wanted to pursue the approach.....