pe3nguin Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Maybe I'm not reading correctly but 3 w/kg for 60 mins to stay with top dogs is hardly a massive effort. Seldom need to hammer it for 60min. Can easily sit in and save the watts for the important parts of the race. A quick 30second effort can be the difference between making or missing a gap.
Stricker Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Perhaps average power vs normalised power? This is average power yes.
jcza Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Seldom need to hammer it for 60min. Can easily sit in and save the watts for the important parts of the race. A quick 30second effort can be the difference between making or missing a gap. I get that... but the short efforts still don't seem that high.
V12man Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Please stop putting words in my mouth and making statements that are not true. I approached you offline in a civil and mature way to understand. Nothing like you mentioned above. But here we are. You need to stop whatever witch hunt you are on with me or trying your hardest to discredit me or make it out you are right and I am wrong. I am not being roped into whatever it is you are trying to achieve here. Flame and keep doing what you doing. Im not apart of it sorry.1 - I am not putting words into your mouth - would you like me to cut and paste to prove this? 2 - Which statement is untrue? 3 - I am pleased you think your offline approach was civil and mature - this is not my opinion. 4 - There is no witch hunt - but I am calling you out to provide reliable evidence to support your statement so we can engage in a reasonable debate - you contend I am wrong but you won't provide evidence or reference to evidence - I am going to wait for Eddy to provide the correct latin term... 5 - I gain nothing from proving you correct or incorrect - I am not remunerated in any way shape or form by coaching athletes or wanna-be athletes - but - that doesn't mean that I don't have interest, qualifications or background in the field of exercise physiology. Next time I am in CT when l drop around to say "Hi" to my friends at Sports Science, I will introduce myself to you.
Karman de Lange Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Hi, Did 1Tonner yesterday in A and see below numbers that was required to stick to top dogs, take note I did not do the head wind sections as that would have most probably changed it big time: 1min - 62.5min - 5.55min -5.27.5min - 510min- 4.815min - 4.420min-3.730min - 3.445min - 3.260min - 3 ohFTP high 4ish and riding in AIf may ask, What is your weight? Be interesting to see what you ftp is as that is what counts on flats , and windy sections.. W/Kg is for hills....
pe3nguin Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 If may ask, What is your weight? Not a whole heck of a lot. The dude needs a hamburger.
Stricker Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 If may ask, What is your weight? Be interesting to see what you ftp is as that is what counts on flats , and windy sections.. W/Kg is for hills....on the heavier side ATM. Bouncing around the 68kg mark
Karman de Lange Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 on the heavier side ATM. Bouncing around the 68kg markSo on the flats i could hang around In A bunch ... Would just be solidly dropped on the hills... Sucks to be big boned :-)
Audible Anarchy Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/08/estimating-your-ftp.html This blog from Joe Friel cites a study from 1999 and has a few paragraphs re: FTP at altitude vs sea level. "As the altitude increases above sea level aerobic capacity declines which means that one’s average max power over a one-hour period would also decline" If I am not mistaken this is also repeated in his power meter handbook.
devocean Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Maybe I'm not reading correctly but 3 w/kg for 60 mins to stay with top dogs is hardly a massive effort. I rode in that bunch too. I think those numbers are only for the first half of the race which was easy - tailwind, no attacks, and UCT guys riding on the front pretty much the whole time. After the halfway mark where we turned into the wind, I think the 1 - 5 min power numbers would have been a lot higher, as well as a lot more of them with the constant attacks and surges. Not to mention dropped riders from the team event jumping in the bunch and giving dead wheels. Another thing, with some of the bigger teams not being there, I think that definitely had a negative (or positive, depending on how much you were suffering) effect on the overall speed of the race.
EmptyB Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Just read this entire thread and I'm drained from my 20 min effort!!
Patchelicious Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Just read this entire thread and I'm drained from my 20 min effort!!Yes yes, but the question is; did you read it at altitude or sea level?
Thor Buttox Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Yes yes, but the question is; did you read it altitude or sea level?We must never imply a fella was high just because it was an effort to do something.
Jurgens Smit Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 I haven't done a whole lot of cycling lately. Currently at a 10.19 seeding.I'm guessing FTP is at around 3.5w/kg currently. Maybe done 4 rides since the jock. The sea level vs altitude ftp debate is very meh. It's logical that you should do better at sea level. But you can't always choose the logical answer. John mentioned one or 2 of his guys don't feel comfortable at sea level. It's alot like the ftp test in erg mode. You thinking 300w is your max effort for 20min, 310 in erg mode is doable. Your mind is a super powerful tool.Personally I think the only way at altitude could be higher than sea level is when you are already at basically your max potential, and the added difficulty of altitude can trick your mind into digging deeper.
rudi-h Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 That's the thing with racing , its never full gas all the way.Its the 5min, 10min, 15min efforts that rip the group apart and continues hard 3min-5minnever a 20min and 30min, we do not go over those climbs where those (time power) is required. That 6wpkg 1min is at the end of a 10min climb.During the race we had a 8min climb, just 8min and only +-10 of us survived it, rest all got dropped. So don't be fooled by those numbers, it had me tasting blood. this got me thinking... anyone out there with some IT capabilities? With so much power data available and so much tools for crunching the "big data" numbers these days, it would be a world first and a extremely informative to start a power data upload page for a massive event like the 94.7 where everybody with power meters can upload their data for analysis. If marketed correctly one could literally have 100's of data sets for the exact same route on the same day which should give great insight as to what to train for to achieve your goals. Would be great to see the differences between time, NP, critical power, seeding group, etc. and even to quantify the differences within one group to see what how guys that pull compare to the wheelsuckers. Maybe someone with the IT know-how can setup a website where we all can upload our PM data with your weight after the race? edit: not to mention drawing correlations between 94.7 and CTCT times etc.
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