On the subject of cyclists hit by drivers

[sa-shooter]

Not wanting to divert attention away from the other thread about the cyclist who was killed (may you rest in peace, Nino. Prayers and best wishes to the family) I thought I would start a new discussion here and vent my frustrations.

I am very new here and quite new to cycling but reading the above mentioned thread, I feel compelled to vent my frustrations on the whole issue. Firstly, with regards to making stricter laws about drunk driving. It's totally redundant. Criminals don't care about laws... Drinking and driving is already against the law, you can't make it more illegal and expect there to be any difference. The current limit is already at such a point where, in my opinion, being at the limit is hardly regarded as "drunk" for any person. I highly doubt that anyone who has had a single glass of wine would be impaired. Yes, you would be over the limit but does not make you intoxicated. Not too long ago, the limit was 3 times what it is now  (I stand corrected) and it was still legal. My point is, 10 years ago one beer would be fine but now you are a criminal, yet you have had the same amount to drink and are in the same state of mind. Now,please do not misunderstand me in thinking that I am standing up for people who drink and drive. I'm simply pointing out that making it more illegal won't change the fact that people get smashed and drive anyway with total disregard of what the legal limit is.

Secondly, drivers have no respect for cyclists (and motorcyclists) simply because the lack of respect is mutual. Take this from someone who is completely unbiased (I've always respected two wheel travelers and given more than enough room to pass, even before I started cycling). Just yesterday I was visiting the Specialized shop in Stellenbosch. Upon leaving, I was at the traffic light and as the light changed green, there was an entire group of cyclists consisting of about 15 cyclists who simply ignored the red light and cycled straight though the intersection. Now in the event that a driver had not noticed them and crossed into the the intersection when the light changed, a cyclist could have been seriously injured. In another instance last week, I was driving up a road where two cars could only just pass each other safely but with a group of cyclists riding two and three abreast across the left side of the road. I had to slow down to a near standstill to avoid hitting the oncoming vehicle or a cyclist who never even bothered riding in a single file as I passed. Two weekends ago I took n drive to Jonkershoek where I passed many cyclists riding two abreast on the road where they could easily have been on the path riding alongside the road or in a single file. Who would be responsible if a rider is hit in these instances?

 

I see it very often that cyclists do not abide by the traffic laws and get hurt as a result thereof. Granted, this does not apply to most cyclists as I see more who follow the rules than what I don't. I find it particularly interesting that drivers hate cyclist and cyclists hate drivers. Perhaps we all need to be more tolerable of one another and work together?

 

I realize that this post may place a target on my back but it's important to note that drivers don't simply not like cyclists for no reason. I am also very much aware of drivers making it dangerous for cyclists when it can be avoided and the cyclists are practicing safe riding. This certainly is a huge issue with both sides contributing.

 

So, in closing, I would like to add that this in no way has anything to do with the cyclist who was killed as I was not there to see what happened. My comments are based on the comments of others. I would also like to add that I do very much agree that the punishment of drunk driving and/or hitting a cyclist should be taken very seriously and without any leniency. However, enforcement is the key and as long as criminals will get away with it, they will continue to do it and the sentencing is moot if the perpetrators are not caught.

 

This is something that is out of our control and is the responsibility of the state to ensure effective law enforcement. In my opinion, they have failed us in this regard on many fronts. I don't wish to step on any toes or alienate myself, but I felt it was worth the discussion (though it has likely been discussed many times before here on the forum). As always, stay safe and happy riding.

[eddy]

. Take this from someone who is completely unbiased.

I did not know that anybody could be so blind to the fact that no one is without bias and is foolish enough to trumpet that ignorance.

 

Now the rest of your argument, as poor as it is, would have had some validity if you did not show yourself so lacking in self awareness or of the human condition.

[Escapee..]

Regarding the bunch rolling through the red robot...has anyone seen or heard of an accident because of this?

 

Not saying its right..

[koukie]

I did not know that anybody could be so blind to the fact that no one is without bias and is foolish enough to trumpet that ignorance.

 

Now the rest of your argument, as poor as it is, would have had some validity if you did not show yourself so lacking in self awareness or of the human condition.

I really struggle to see why you call his argument poor, he has some valid points. For instance... "Perhaps we all need to be more tolerable of one another and work together?" Its been said before but we can say it again and again. Motorists should have a tolerance for cyclists and cyclists a tolerance for motorists. 

[Patchelicious]

No post with such blatant disregard for paragraphing, deserves to be taken seriously.

[Mojoman]

I really struggle to see why you call his argument poor, he has some valid points. For instance... "Perhaps we all need to be more tolerable of one another and work together?" Its been said before but we can say it again and again. Motorists should have a tolerance for cyclists and cyclists a tolerance to motorists. 

And motorists to other motorists....

 

But that's all in an ideal world.... Sadly this country is as corrupt and criminal as can be. And even when you are caught the consequences are minor....

[Vetseun]

No post with such blatant disregard for paragraphing, deserves to be taken seriously.

No post with such blatant disregard for paragraphing, deserves to be taken seriously.

I tried to read it, twice. Makes my head hurt so I left it.

[lechatnoir]

Regarding the bunch rolling through the red robot...has anyone seen or heard of an accident because of this?

 

Not saying its right..

 

No. It's not right. And though there is no recorded (for argument's sake) accident because of such behaviour, cyclists owe it to themselves, and the rest of the cycling community (and heck, the ENTIRE community) to observe and obey the rules of the road.

 

When one cyclist rolls a red light or a stop sign, a motorist will see that, and his/her outlook on the NEXT cyclist might be different.

 

My view is, respect yourself (and your fragile existence on 2 wheels), other riders, cagers and pedestrians. If we ALL did that, we'd all be better off

 

#justsaying. also, paragraphs

[Warthog]

Jeepers, sometimes you senior lot on this wonderful forum can really be a bunch of poepholle...

 

sa-shooter - I agree with your thoughts.

[Vetplant]

No post with such blatant disregard for paragraphing, deserves to be taken seriously.

My mind was OK with the first 2 paragraphs. But when it sensed the next one was infinitely long it basically gave up.

 

So I just skipped ahead to the inevitable criticism of the OP.

 

My 3 cents worth:

1.Make legal blood alcohol level 0 percent

2.Police it manically

3.Make it easier on the cops with less admin for them, currently it takes them 4 hours to process a drunk guy, so they rarely go to through the effort. Get a better system.

[Me rida my bicycle]

Can see most people did not read this but still decided to give their opinion missing the point.

 

As the OP said you can make the limit as low as you like people are still going to drink and drive.

 

Some things are just not going to change so if you are out on the road whether on 2 wheels or 4 just do your part.

[Cotic]

To shed light on this subject as one of Nino who passed away best friend,his wife/widow is my wife's best friend and as I lay here tonight hearing my wife sob in pain for her best friend and constantly asking why why why,I can only say this much and perhaps more.

Yesterday Nino was not riding 3 abreast, yesterday Nino did not ride through a red robot.

Some selfish turd who probably goes to the gym to drink coffee on a Monday to recover from an over indulged weekend took his life.

And many if not most cyclists here,and myself at one stage a seasoned road racer ,but now a mountain biker as I have lost 3 friends due to selfish motorists,and years prior ad a 6 hour comrades runner lost 2 friends to a drunkard, can say this much.

We sometimes ride abreast because if we didn't we would be pushed into the gutter by motorists and if we didn't we would not be as visible.

Yes I agree ,motorists get to use the phrase think bike,cyclists don't use the phrase think car.

But the again we don't walk into every drinking hole on the weekend and bully motorists before they get their inconsiderate drunk lazy asses behind the wheel of a motor car,so why should they being in a lethal weapon get to bully and destroy us.

Why everytime a car or truck approaches should we ship our tights.

Enough said.

[Bonus]

Chances of actually getting stopped/caught are slim.

If you get stopped there's a chance you can buy your way out of trouble.

 

We stopped going out late at night over the weekends in Jo'burg after seeing some seriously dangerous driving late at night. In some places, red robots are entirely ignored. A friend of a friend of ours spent 6 months in hospital after getting T-boned whilest driving through a green light because of red light jumper. Who needs that in their life?

 

We'd go out to eat and be home by 9pm :-)

[Cotic]

If I may add here as I am sad/angry frustrated.

When I get back from a ride and my wife asks did you have a good ride,and my answer always has to be :every ride you get home in one piece is a good ride:

Does that not make you think.

If we not prayed upon my motorists then by muggers.

F*&@k.Me.

Eish let me get off this site before I get banned from it.

[IceCreamMan]

Firstly. 10 years ago the limit was what it is now. Back in 2000 the limit was changed from 0.08 to 0.05. Thus not 3 times more 10 years ago. However, cops are easily bribed so irrelevant what the limit is.

 

It’s also conjecture at this point as to this particular incident as to whether alcohol was a factor.

 

That said, it’s always cyclists that hurt in an altercation with another vehicle irrespective of who is the party at fault so any remedy has to be viewed from that perspective.

 

Ultimately there is something seriously decayed in ZA society an we can talk about it til doomsday it won’t fix it. A good start would be to have nandatory minimum jail terms for any hit an run motorists an severe penalties for transgressions of road rules. An authorities must get tough on taxis etc.

 

Cyclists being injured and killed has been going on for many years now an the sanctions meted out are ridiculous.

 

What is CSA doing to lobby authorities as a matter of interest?

 

Edit: what happened to that guy who left the suncoast casino an killed the 2 on the m4?

What happened to the guys who left the shebeen an killed the guy close to white horse inn?

What happened to the guy that killed the cyclist on HP who fell asleep at the wheel?

[Eldron]

The biggest problem is SA is the lack of respect by everybody.

 

Riders jump lights, ride abreast so they can chat, have following vehicles to keep them safe etc.

 

Then they get in cars and complain that the roads are congested and it takes them forever to get anywhere.

 

Motorists speed, text, drink and drive. A fair number of motorists also happen to be cyclists but of course their prriorities change when they swap pedals for a cage.

 

The sooner SA stops with the ME ME ME ME ME mentality the sooner ALL road accidents will drop.