To the young lady in the white Ford Figo...

[Bonus]

Some context. 

 

South Africa, for the most part, is a law-less nation, where the rule of law is simply not given a F about. Period.

 

For instance, yesterday morning, in the space of roughly 500 meters, I had a taxi run a red light at which I had stopped, from behind me. Then, 2 cars passed me around a blind bend, crossing a solid white line in the process, before BOTH a-holes drove straight over the next red traffic light. The one car that passed me over the solid white actually hooted at me to get the F out the way...

 

Now, I was in my Isuzu, not riding my bicycle. This thing of people not giving a fart, is mostly not because of anything you are or are not doing, but mainly it has to do with the sense of entitlement that is so flippen pervasive in this country. 

 

There has been a poll recently (I think it was on Carte Blance also recently, I stand corrected), whereby people were asked if they were good drivers, to which the answer was a resounding yes. And when asked how other people drive, everyone said poorly. So, in the eyes of the masses, they are right, and everyone else is wrong. 

 

And therein the conundrum. Everyone cant be right, or else road deaths would be a thing of the past. But they aren't, so who is wrong?

 

The thing is though, getting mad and wanting to "get even" is not going to help either, as you may get hurt if you do pursue, or you end being the one "drinking the poison, in the hope that the other person dies". There are no winners.

 

Live and let live. For the rest, just smile and wave.

 

 

 

95%  of any group of people believe that the rules are there "for everyone else" . . .

[V12man]

So the other day I'm driving my car down a busy road, approaching a robot, turns yellow, i apply brakes and come to a stop.

I look in my rearview mirror and there is some dude in a car behind me freaking out and waving his arms about because i stopped at the robot.

 

True story, SA has definitely got some issues when it comes to driving and road use in general.

 

People are way too agressive, cars and bicycles included i reckon.

Not to worry... I got tear ended in Milan Italy because I stopped at a red light... guy behind me said he didn't think I was going to stop at the red...

['Kaze Pete]

Yes most cyclist do actually keep left and 1m away from pavements and parked cars.

Only then you'll have some self righteous tjop on a Specialized S-Rowks tell you to keep left.

Or have some irate pensioner in a Honda Jazz moer the toeter cos you not evaporating our of their way.

 

Most cyclists I know ride with self preservation in mind and mindful of what road conditions re allowing.

Sure groups present a problem because there will always be the guy at the back who wants to drift into the middle of the road.

But technically this is allowed since the law makes provision for cyclists to pass each other and therefore ride two abreast.

But how many times have you had that Honda Jazz hold onto the hooter till Xmas comes again because a group  is two abreast inside the yellow. line.

 

So yes you're right, SA's only obey their own moral compass which is why altruistic ideas of sharing the road won't fly. Only thing that works with immature societies is law and law enforcement.

Or maybe legalize cannabis asthma inhalers

Two points:

 

a)  Some facts:

1. Our laws state that cyclists should ride single file. Our laws does not cater for cycling groups.

2. An overtaking maneuver is different from riding two abreast in a group. The first does not allow the latter.

 

Note:I ride two abreast in groups as well, fully knowing that I am breaking the law. It is what it is.

 

b) The first part highlighted in the text I quoted seems to confirm the second part I quoted.

 

We all (you included) do as we please because the social contract in this country is broken (adhering to ALL the laws of the land is part of that contract)

[stefmeister]

Some of the self righteousness displayed in this thread is probably the reason why cyclists are so disliked in SA.

Just in this thread?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eddy Gordo]

Why not focus on both?  Those that are part of the 1% that acts like p03p•, and contribute to the agro-ness, as well as the part of the 99% that has the guys to be responsible with the use of it.  

 

And to be honest, the assertion that most cyclists obey the rules, don't think that is accurate, as I might be incorrect but is the rules / laws  not as follow:

 

• Keep left and keep at least one metre clear of pavements and parked cars
• Ride in single file and use clear hand signals when turning or changing lanes

Now some might say that the rules do not work and if you have to choose between your life and following the rules, you choose your life.  Which come back to the point, people only follow the rules as it suits them, and based on their own moral compass.

Just need to ad that it is law to use the cycle lane if there is one

[Paddaman]

Two points:

 

a)  Some facts:

1. Our laws state that cyclists should ride single file. Our laws does not cater for cycling groups.

2. An overtaking maneuver is different from riding two abreast in a group. The first does not allow the latter.

 

Note:I ride two abreast in groups as well, fully knowing that I am breaking the law. It is what it is.

 

b) The first part highlighted in the text I quoted seems to confirm the second part I quoted.

 

We all (you included) do as we please because the social contract in this country is broken (adhering to ALL the laws of the land is part of that contract)

If you see two cyclists riding abreast, why do you assume that they are riding abreast, and not the logical conclusion that one cyclist is OVERTAKING/passing  the other?  In a pace line there is a continual action of overtaking/passing  taking place.

 

South African law is clear that you may not overtake'/pass a vehicle that is busy overtaking/passing another vehicle.  This means that cars should not attempt to pass a well constituted pass line.........

['Kaze Pete]

If you see two cyclists riding abreast, why do you assume that they are riding abreast, and not the logical conclusion that one cyclist is OVERTAKING/passing the other? In a pace line there is a continual action of overtaking/passing taking place.

 

South African law is clear that you may not overtake'/pass a vehicle that is busy overtaking/passing another vehicle. This means that cars should not attempt to pass a well constituted pass line.........

being a cyclist (roadie) I know that the vast majority of cyclist are not riding next to each other to overtake each other, but rather to just ride alongside each other. Seldomly a group has an organised, rotating paceline going.

 

This strengthens in the perceptions motorists have

[Eldron]

Some relevant crossthreading:

 

'Van Avermaet rolls away. Gets ten feet down the road. Red light. He stops. Waits. An amateur blows the light. Van Avermaet keeps waiting, standing there in that quintessential red-light pose, right foot unclipped and stuck out to make a tire/tire/foot tripod. It’s the same pose he strikes at the start line of the Tour of Flanders. But this is just a red light in Carcassonne under a bleaching rest day sun'

[Paddaman]

Some relevant crossthreading:

 

'Van Avermaet rolls away. Gets ten feet down the road. Red light. He stops. Waits. An amateur blows the light. Van Avermaet keeps waiting, standing there in that quintessential red-light pose, right foot unclipped and stuck out to make a tire/tire/foot tripod. It’s the same pose he strikes at the start line of the Tour of Flanders. But this is just a red light in Carcassonne under a bleaching rest day sun'

He knows he will catch the amateur quickly, and then give him a dressing down about safety in sport....

[Eldron]

If you see two cyclists riding abreast, why do you assume that they are riding abreast, and not the logical conclusion that one cyclist is OVERTAKING/passing the other? In a pace line there is a continual action of overtaking/passing taking place.

 

South African law is clear that you may not overtake'/pass a vehicle that is busy overtaking/passing another vehicle. This means that cars should not attempt to pass a well constituted pass line.........

How would you feel if 4 cars were doing exactly that at 60kph on the highway blocking all the lanes?

 

Would you give then a wry smile and a "well played boys" whilst waiting patiently behind them?

[Odinson]

Two points:

 

a)  Some facts:

1. Our laws state that cyclists should ride single file. Our laws does not cater for cycling groups.

2. An overtaking maneuver is different from riding two abreast in a group. The first does not allow the latter.

 

Note:I ride two abreast in groups as well, fully knowing that I am breaking the law. It is what it is.

 

b) The first part highlighted in the text I quoted seems to confirm the second part I quoted.

 

We all (you included) do as we please because the social contract in this country is broken (adhering to ALL the laws of the land is part of that contract)

 

I drive and text, fully knowing that I am breaking the law. It is what it is. 

[Allrounder]

 

 

 

My posts are NOT about who owns the road ... it is about common sense and being a SAFE cyclist ....

 

There is the problem

 

Self entitlement has become more important than common sense and being safe. 

 

If you are paralyzed or dead, what will right of way mean?

 

Quite a big number of car vs bicycle accidents happen where the cyclist is hit from behind  or where they had the right of way.... 

[LeoKnight]

If you see two cyclists riding abreast, why do you assume that they are riding abreast, and not the logical conclusion that one cyclist is OVERTAKING/passing  the other?  In a pace line there is a continual action of overtaking/passing  taking place.

 

South African law is clear that you may not overtake'/pass a vehicle that is busy overtaking/passing another vehicle.  This means that cars should not attempt to pass a well constituted pass line.........

 

fixed it for you, as I assumed it was tongue in cheek comment (even put it in comic sans)

[DieselnDust]

You're still missing the point completely.

 

It's got zero to do with the law here. 

 

Danes give a crap about each other. THAT is what makes society so pleasant here.

 

Cyclists AND motorists use the roads in a way that makes it better for BOTH parties.

 

Having lived here for a little over 2 years I find South African discussions around road safety really frustrating because nobody wants to be part of the solution - they seem to prefer other people to be the problem. 

 

Take you stance for example:

 

Sorry I  can't join the cyclist bashing culture that exists amongst cyclists but I would actually like to see change in behaviors on SA roads and cyclists are NOT THE PROBLEM. I understand that's not a popular point of view.

 

I would argue that is is rather difficult to convince drivers to be more tolerant when their (somewhat correct) view is that cyclists jump red lights and have no respect for the law. Why should drivers sign their part of the social contract when cyclists don't?

 

The onus will always be more on the part of the drivers because their vehicles go faster and will always win in a car/bicycle confrontation but to to state that cyclists are not the problem (in capitals letters no less!) makes asking drivers to sign a social contract almost impossible.

 

 

I would have to disagree with the underlined as this is not observed nor proven to be statistically correct. Where I do see cyclists jumping red lights or stop streets is when there is a T-Junction and approaching the T with a Right turn or Continue Straight the only possibility. And even then very very few will continue through the intersection without looking of observing some self preservation tactic.

However by observation many motorists jump red light and stop streets without showing any caution. The consequences for other road users is far more dire if the motorist who jumps the red lights causes an accident.

 

Perhaps you find the gun analogy silly, that's fine as there are plenty more that fit the bill and get the point across.

 

We can also argue that claiming that cyclists who jump red lights cause motorists to want to kill them. I guess you would agree with the erroneous sentiment that girls who wear short dresses are looking to get raped too.....?

Yeah maybe its silly but the pattern of thinking is the same in the motoring and rape scenarios.

 

I guess this the part where the "don't be so dramatic ....yada yada gets thrown in".

 

All this talk about the social contract. Fantastic words which really means nothing when cyclists can't even stand together and lobby for a cause that benefits all cyclists......the irony.

We have a 1m passing law in the Western Cape and when a cyclist gets hit the first question that gets asked by other cyclists is : " did he jump a red light,/ Was he riding in the middle of the road / insert your favourite cyclists blame question."

 

Seems that most of these cyclists are just motorists at heart and therefore the default position is always the motorist must be right.

Where does fixing the social contract then start?

[LeoKnight]

 

Where does fixing the social contract then start?

 

With each person looking at them self, be the change you want to see.  It might not work, but it is the only real option.  

[Patchelicious]

With each person looking at them self, be the change you want to see.  It might not work, but it is the only real option.  

Dude, I have been preaching this for ages. What I have come to realise is that in a country like SA, where self preservation is the norm and a necessity, asking people to change for the sake of society is an unrealistic ask.

 

Only real world solution in the short term, is to move to a society that has socio standards congruent to your own.