CSA fining members for riding choc mtb

[gogo@]

.

Yeah.. but who gets what?

I know I’m not likely to get the answer but looks like a huge mis-match between an Exco getting paid while other portfolios are voluntary? How about the other way round? (Don’t worry I know all the arguments against that.)

[Andrew Steer]

That  "KZN DSR events".....

 

What if they used that money to send riders competing internationally.

Gives your roughly R1m per month to spend on athletes to compete internationally.

 

Just a thought.........

This did get my interest, so I did a quick look and found this... Simply put, the funds can't be used elsewhere.

 

3.4 Cycling SA has a multi-year grant agreement with the KwaZulu-Natal Department of Sport and Recreation (“KZNDSR”) in terms of which KZNDSR sponsors the hosting of major cycling events. The grant funds are fully audited each year, and a comprehensive and transparent donor report on grant expenditure is furnished to KZNDSR each year. Funds received as part of this grant are used strictly for the purpose for which they were intended in terms of the grant agreement between Cycling SA and KZNDSR.

[Slowbee]

Its not too hard to hold hands and prevent a crowd invasion. Doesn't require an understanding of the rules of Golf or experience in Golf administration does it.

crowd control - exactly what CSA needs help with

[Andrew Steer]

Now this is not the kind of income statement I would  like to put my signature on. Personally I would like a bit more clarity on things like "Sport Expenditure". 

I am hopeful that 2018 will look a lot better and a lot more transparent. 

 

I am not exactly sure, but to me the bad debts just represent  hopeful income provisions that never materialised in previous years, and some real bad debts.  I do not have the facts however.

 

Cannot wait to see what CSA have managed to change and improve on in the last year.

Don't worry, ASA have R25million allocated to 'project expenses'   

 

There are quite a few positive signs from my experience - but it's a big old hole CSA have to dig themselves out of from these past few years.

[Rolling Stone]

crowd control - exactly what CSA needs help with

 You not too far off the mark here.

 

It is called Officials at races. Cycling's version of crowd and overzealous parent control.

 

You will notice that officials’ fees are not reflected anywhere. Mostly paid directly by race organizer directly to the officials. There needs to be more transparency in this department as well.

 

Now I know some tannie is going to moer me down the line and I am going to have to go double measure my kids bike before the weekend, but we need more volunteer officials to make cycle racing more affordable. They normally come in the form of parents. BMX have managed to get this right and can host nationals without any sponsor or assistance from regions or CSA while keeping race entries to a minimum, these races even have UCI status. Most of our officials were parents once, but I get the feeling that many (not all) officials have long forgotten their real reason for getting involved in the sport in the first place.

 

That is one reason why I believe Schools Cycling is working so well, combination of parents and recognition.

 

Maybe Nedbank has some for us.

[scotty]

Its not too hard to hold hands and prevent a crowd invasion. Doesn't require an understanding of the rules of Golf or experience in Golf administration does it.

Neither does handing out numbers to lic riders on the morning of the race, many who come from afar yet they are adamant they will not and they can only be picked up at registration before race day. 

[Rolling Stone]

Neither does handing out numbers to lic riders on the morning of the race, many who come from afar yet they are adamant they will not and they can only be picked up at registration before race day. 

 Ja but that is only because they do not like you because you complain about them on the hub. I get (correction used to get  ) numbers at the start at times. 

Mostly the officials are nice and treat us all well if we ask nicely and say please, unless you catch a grumpy official  at the wrong time. An official's mood is oftern dictated by the cyclist they assisted just before you. Very old officials have a slightly longer memory,

[Frosty]

OFFICIALS

My only gripe with the officials is CONSISTENCY - or the lack thereof. If riders gutter on the right, then they should stop the race every week. They know that it’s a part of racing, but sometimes turn a blind eye. Okay one week and not another.

 

Otherwise they are okay, and they aren’t CSA representatives like some believe. They themselves are license holders, to ensure licensed racing is fair for all in the group.

 

They don’t need to attend to the open groups, and also don’t need to be there after the results for the licensed categories have been signed off. That’s for road. MTB is slightly different as I am learning each year - for a small XCM race there is only one commissaire required.

 

As Rolling Stone has mentioned, they invoice the organiser direct through the PC (road) or the solo commissaire (MTB). It has nothing much to do with CSA w.r.t. the payments of officials.

 

CSA’s technical commission will appoint commissaires and rules relating to the licensed/racing categories. Their biggest down fall is the very late appointment of officials, or rulings on who can ride in which category. This should be finalized BEFORE online entries open.

 

This is working, at least for sanctioned events, and for the bigger events - can’t comment on the small events, like the Choc event that this thread was about.

 

COMMUNICATION

What is in dire need of change is effective communication between CSA and it’s members. CSA made the rule that members don’t need to belong to a club to join CSA, yet insist that clubs must drive the development of cycling.

 

If they aren’t communicating to clubs, then how do they do it with the non-club members? An email is not sufficient, nor is a website - communication requires interaction from both sides otherwise it’s not communication bit rather a command, information or persuasion.

 

How do they do it?

Many people have their own answer, and it might not be the best one, but CSA need to hear, listen and do something with the feedback from it’s members.

 

Easier to fix a region one at a time than the whole country at once. Maybe this is what is needed to shake CSA, but try register for an event when the region hasn’t handed over CSA’s portion of the rider levies. Then there’s infighting with race organisers vying for dates on the calendar. The date should be reserved for the incumbent to settle their levies, secure sponsorship and other matters. If not done by a certain date, then they could lose their date. This is what CSA should be doing for organisers, but works on first-come-first-serve (payment secures the date).

 

So...

WP... seems to be okay - they have two organisations doing enough for the province.

KZN... I don’t know enough to comment, but they seems to have the support of their Sports & Recreation Department.

GP... a huge region split into 5 regions, of which 2 are active, one less active and the other 2 very quiet.

[ians H2Sport]

As part of KZNMTB, I attended the CSA MTB Indaba last Saturday and was pleasantly surprised by how much positive work has been done by CSA over the past 10 months or so.

 

For the record, I have been publicly critical of CSA in the past; on social media, to CSA officials in person and even in my KZNMTB address at our awards dinner last year. I openly criticized their structure, performance, poor communication, financial situation etc etc. Some Provinces have done a lot of work to ensure value is added to cycling, mostly without support from our national body at the time. 

 

Unfortunately, the damage done by CSA in the past will sit with people and many won't see, or don't want to see, any progress that is being made. I am not saying CSA has reversed the damage and has got everything right, but I am saying they are making some good progress and seem to be headed in the right direction. Most important, I believe their intentions are good. I now believe they can get it right in time, but they need the support of the provinces and race organizers to do so. Yes, some provinces need to be sorted out too, and this was raised at the Indaba. There are some new, capable people with good intentions involved in the provinces, let's hope they will have a positive impact..

 

Most of the criticism dished out on this thread stems from the damaged done by CSA in the past, and rightly so. But maybe it is worth considering that a turnaround could be in progress.

[scotty]

OFFICIALS

My only gripe with the officials is CONSISTENCY - or the lack thereof. If riders gutter on the right, then they should stop the race every week. They know that it’s a part of racing, but sometimes turn a blind eye. Okay one week and not another.

 

Otherwise they are okay, and they aren’t CSA representatives like some believe. They themselves are license holders, to ensure licensed racing is fair for all in the group.

 

 

Who allocates the officials to be on duty, is it the region or is it the race organizers. If those official are not CSA representatives acting on their behalf and have nothing to do with CSA how can they enforce CSA rules. 

 

I'm the one that keeps harping on about the officials on duty catering only for Lic riders, Reason is I see no value they add to the large majority of riders in whatever shape be it CSA, affiliated region, sub region, race commissionaire  etc.

 

I get that the part of the entry from day lic to % of each entry is split between CSA and the regions and sub regions etc, but as a fun rider in the open group with exception of placing it on the calendar, what am i been charged a % of my entry for. What other input do they have ?  I'm asking this so I can see whether taking out membership or day lic and motivating others to do the same plus this will help in my decision to enter more sanctioned races. 

[Patchelicious]

As part of KZNMTB, I attended the CSA MTB Indaba last Saturday and was pleasantly surprised by how much positive work has been done by CSA over the past 10 months or so.

 

For the record, I have been publicly critical of CSA in the past; on social media, to CSA officials in person and even in my KZNMTB address at our awards dinner last year. I openly criticized their structure, performance, poor communication, financial situation etc etc. Some Provinces have done a lot of work to ensure value is added to cycling, mostly without support from our national body at the time. 

 

Unfortunately, the damage done by CSA in the past will sit with people and many won't see, or don't want to see, any progress that is being made. I am not saying CSA has reversed the damage and has got everything right, but I am saying they are making some good progress and seem to be headed in the right direction. Most important, I believe their intentions are good. I now believe they can get it right in time, but they need the support of the provinces and race organizers to do so. Yes, some provinces need to be sorted out too, and this was raised at the Indaba. There are some new, capable people with good intentions involved in the provinces, let's hope they will have a positive impact..

 

Most of the criticism dished out on this thread stems from the damaged done by CSA in the past, and rightly so. But maybe it is worth considering that a turnaround could be in progress.

 

I am sure most people would love to see it. As pointed out before, transparency and communication is paramount to gaining your members trust again. So if there is a great plan, they need to broadcast it.

 

I think much of the criticism here stems from anger, and whilst much of the things being pointed out is in the past, people have yet to be held to account or even acknowledge the mistakes/mismanagement. While the actual damage done cant really be rectified now, if the same people are still there that where in charge when the damage was done, its tough to ask people to simply trust them again.

[ians H2Sport]

I am sure most people would love to see it. As pointed out before, transparency and communication is paramount to gaining your members trust again. So if there is a great plan, they need to broadcast it.

 

I think much of the criticism here stems from anger, and whilst much of the things being pointed out is in the past, people have yet to be held to account or even acknowledge the mistakes/mismanagement. While the actual damage done cant really be rectified now, if the same people are still there that where in charge when the damage was done, its tough to ask people to simply trust them again.

Great point, no arguments here. I don't see that these changes will be made in the short term (note the CSA President was changed earlier in the year), so we have to make do with what we have got. That's my point, we have to move on now and make things work. 

[GaryvdM]

Great point, no arguments here. I don't see that these changes will be made in the short term (note the CSA President was changed earlier in the year), so we have to make do with what we have got. That's my point, we have to move on now and make things work.

Which brings us back to CSA's enforcement of UCI rule 1.2.019. Instead of just doing a good job, they pull this heavy handed "We have the monopoly, and we going to do what we need to keep it" move.

[DieselnDust]

R750 and a months suspension is hardly heavy handed.

 

or must the rather hug and coach riders on the error of their ways.

 

If rider takes out a license then they are expected to understand the rules which includes the rules around what they put into their bodies, technical rules and code of conduct.

Simple, expect a slap on the wrist if you hold a license and ride in unsanctioned events.

[GaryvdM]

R750 and a months suspension is hardly heavy handed.

 

or must the rather hug and coach riders on the error of their ways.

 

If rider takes out a license then they are expected to understand the rules which includes the rules around what they put into their bodies, technical rules and code of conduct.

Simple, expect a slap on the wrist if you hold a license and ride in unsanctioned events.

Yes - it is just a slap on the wrist to the cyclist, but a wave of a big stick at all event organizers.

[Rouxenator]

Yes - it is just a slap on the wrist to the cyclist, but a wave of a big stick at all event organizers.

And that is the pity of it all. I do not want to race, I do not want CSA, I do not give a flying f...k about the UCI. All I want is fun rides - and I am not alone. 

 

What CSA is doing is damaging to the large majority of us that just want to go out and have fun on our bicycles.