CSA fining members for riding choc mtb

[gogo@]

Race organizers hide behind the "We are doing something for Charity" banner.

 

Which races are these?

[Kranswurm]

It's the principal of the matter. I do not want them to get my money - at all. 

They are ..from PPA

[Barend de Arend]

Well done... we don't all live in the Cape last I checked.

 

Are PPA UCI accredited? Can they pick a national team?

 

It really is great fun going around in circles... 

 

This is a UCI rule.

 

The CSA should always enforce it. Maybe they are going to be more consistent - there has been quite a bit of this of late.

 

Why this one?  Why not any of the bicycle rules (size, weight limit, motor?)

 

Especially why this one when it gets ignored internationally?  When they couldn't possibly send a commissaire to every one of these races if they did suddenly get sanctioned?

 

Yes, the CSA needs money, else we will be complaining forever that they don't pay for riders to compete internationally, do more for rider safety etc etc

 

I've still not seen the master plan to 'replace' them? Just the usual 'burn it all down' diatribe with no plan or way out.

 

Yes we want more from them, yes they could do better - but we kind of have to give them the chance to do so as well.

 

I agree that a strong CSA would be a good thing.  They've had a lot of chances, though: decades.

 

If they came out with a plan to get out of the pit like:

- in 2019 we're going to develop 3 riders

- in 2020 we're going to develop 6 riders

- in 2021 we're going to work with youtube

- in 2022 we're going to upskill commissaires

- in 2023 we're going to ...

 

To do this we need X, Y and Z

To do this we want A, B and C

[Frosty]

Two races have an agreement with CyclingSA to have split sanctioning. The Elites, U23 and Juniors (male and female) are sanctioned while the masses (including Vets) aren’t sanctioned - this solves the rule for the UCI categories.

 

Any Vet that is licensed in these two events won’t be penalized/fined. These two races pay a rider levy for Elites/U23/Juniors and a bulk fee for the masses. It was an agreement between organiser and CyclingSA.

 

This was confirmed by CSA at a meeting in May this year, when my colleagues met with CyclingSA to clarify rider levies and other important matters. We didn’t sign any NDA so no need to keep the matter private.

 

As for the other concerns... well, seems to have remained unanswered, or pending. This is the most frustrating part, as an organiser, having to deal with CyclingSA.

[Skubarra]

 R250 a year for a membership? and that includes some medical cover for that day that things go wrong.

 

But day license is also ok, 2/3 of that goes to your region and not to CSA as such.

 

For me the "but CSA members get medical cover" excuse from CSA-supporters is as bad as the "if the event is for a charity it doesn't matter that it's unsanctioned" from CSA-haters

 

I already have medical cover, if I want more I can probably get it for cheaper than what CSA is giving it to me.

 

I would rather want CSA to go back to the cheaper annual rates that they had before adding bells & whistles nobody asked for. If I have to pay the CSA tax I'm happy that it all go for cycling development and not some of it to Hollard. But that's just me 

[Andrew Steer]

Why this one?  Why not any of the bicycle rules (size, weight limit, motor?)

 

Especially why this one when it gets ignored internationally?  When they couldn't possibly send a commissaire to every one of these races if they did suddenly get sanctioned?

 

 

I agree that a strong CSA would be a good thing.  They've had a lot of chances, though: decades.

 

If they came out with a plan to get out of the pit like:

- in 2019 we're going to develop 3 riders

- in 2020 we're going to develop 6 riders

- in 2021 we're going to work with youtube

- in 2022 we're going to upskill commissaires

- in 2023 we're going to ...

 

To do this we need X, Y and Z

To do this we want A, B and C

They do have enough commissaires to get to all the races... else they can't sanction them as the commissaire actually has to be there to sign off the course. Check safety aspects, deal with any race result queries, race condition issues etc

 

This (race sanctioning) is an income stream and CSA are desperately trying to get out of debt. It's a no brainer.

This sets a precedent for other races - if they want the top riders and the pedigree of having the big names at their race they must be sanctioned.

 

If you're worried about people you are racing using motors or having race illegal bikes then ask a commissaire to investigate at the race - it's very simple. Or do you want them to scan every bike at every race and waste more time and resources and create more debt?

 

Many of the things you list are in fact being done already - they probably just don't have an expensive marketing team to send out press releases weekly.

 

Like I said, they're not perfect, but nobody has a showcased a better plan and way out of all this. We can carry on with this general screw CSA malaise forever if we like, but in my opinion it's not really helpful. Especially when you consider a large number of the problems they are currently dealing with are largely down to the former CSA heads...

 

 

[Andrew Steer]

There is probably a need for a riders, or even a event organisers association in SA that could maybe work in a constructive and united front with CSA in resolving some of the issues discussed...

 

Frosty     

[DieselnDust]

Rubbish CSA are starting to enforce the rule to force more races to be sanctioned so that they can try and balance the books..nothing else.

 

 

Really, you have the facts around this? The economics doesn't add up to make your hypothesis valid.

How much money do they stand to make out of fines?

How much money can they rake in through having more races sanctioned?

 

Maximum fee for an event with more than 1000 participants is R3000-00. How many of those of those are there that are not already sanctioned events?

[Barend de Arend]

They do have enough commissaires to get to all the races... else they can't sanction them as the commissaire actually has to be there to sign off the course. Check safety aspects, deal with any race result queries, race condition issues etc

 

This (race sanctioning) is an income stream and CSA are desperately trying to get out of debt. It's a no brainer.

This sets a precedent for other races - if they want the top riders and the pedigree of having the big names at their race they must be sanctioned.

 

If you're worried about people you are racing using motors or having race illegal bikes then ask a commissaire to investigate at the race - it's very simple. Or do you want them to scan every bike at every race and waste more time and resources and create more debt?

 

Many of the things you list are in fact being done already - they probably just don't have an expensive marketing team to send out press releases weekly.

 

Like I said, they're not perfect, but nobody has a showcased a better plan and way out of all this. We can carry on with this general screw CSA malaise forever if we like, but in my opinion it's not really helpful. Especially when you consider a large number of the problems they are currently dealing with are largely down to the former CSA heads...

 

 

They don't need an expensive marketing team, but they desperately need positive PR.

 

Sending out a (not ambitious) plan is important to make them accountable, and to measure success and failure.  It's also important to get people like me to stop complaining about what they don't do because they can say "yes, but we're short on money, and this we did do."

 

It's extremely important to get the PR out precisely because of past problems.  Because things were hidden.

 

Don't say "we're going to ban everything"

Say "we're going to check bikes to level the playing field"

 

Don't say "we're fining every race"

Say "sanctioned races have extra safety"

 

Don't say "where's your money"

Say "contribute to a commissaire for the juniors"

 

Don't say "hand it over"

Say "thank you"

 

Just advertise which commissaire was at what race last month.  And how many disputes they resolved.  Why they are there.  Make themselves visible.

 

 

Anyway, I need to stop commenting on this thread.  It's not good for my health.  Just wanted to close with constructive criticism.

[Dirkitech]

this thread has essentially turned into the "WTF CSA" v2 and roughly pages 4-9 can b merged with that thread lol

[gogo@]

 

Maximum fee for an event with more than 1000 participants is R3000-00. How many of those of those are there that are not already sanctioned events?

 How do you calculate this?

[Frosty]

How do you calculate this?

It’s on their website - the calendar fee to list the event.

[Patchelicious]

 How do you calculate this?

He held in a sneeze then read what was on the wall like a tarot card.

 

[gogo@]

It’s on their website - the calendar fee to list the event.

Well... there's a lot more to add to that figure then. R3000 is where you start. Keep adding.

[gogo@]

He held in a sneeze then read what was on the wall like a tarot cards.

 

 

[HdB]

I think if CSA could just fix their (and provincial) communication to clubs/riders, it would already go a long way.

 

Yes, thank you for holding a criterium, hillclimb and TT series. I'm looking forward to it next year. (No, I won't bother with a racing license so I can get provincial colours for third out of three).

 

BUT - you have our email addresses. I'd like to know about the series more than a week before it starts, and not only find out because I happened to need something from the LBS and saw the entry form there. I'd like a PDF with the weekend's results and overall standings. Being able to enter online would be nice.

No marketing budget? The local newspapers have a free section for events, and the other small event organisers can get 100+ riders to an event 180km away using just Facebook and Whatsapp.

Go to the first few events of the year (sanctioned or not) with a smile and some information about events etc being planned for the year.

 

Start with the small things that are easy to fix, but go a long way.