The Veganism Thread

[Goodbadugly]

Just out of a practical point of view. Avo and almond trees can not be grown everywhere. They need a specific climate as well as large amounts of water. Fresh water. And the earth is drying out fast. 

I stay in Mpumalanga. The Croc river is drying up fast. Every hectare in the Schoemanskloof area is planted with trees. Macs and oranges.

 

 

So the myth that vegan lifestyles are good for the environment is just that. A myth

Where on earth are we going to plant all these almond, mac and avo trees?

That is if we convert a large amount of people to vegan.

Very much like the Jehovah's witnesses. There is only space for 144000 souls...  

[Odinson]

Just out of a practical point of view. Avo and almond trees can not be grown everywhere. They need a specific climate as well as large amounts of water. Fresh water. And the earth is drying out fast. 

I stay in Mpumalanga. The Croc river is drying up fast. Every hectare in the Schoemanskloof area is planted with trees. Macs and oranges.

 

 

So the myth that vegan lifestyles are good for the environment is just that. A myth

Where on earth are we going to plant all these almond, mac and avo trees?

That is if we convert a large amount of people to vegan.

Very much like the Jehovah's witnesses. There is only space for 144000 souls...  

 

Your perspective might change once you realise that "the vegan lifestyle" doesn't mandate the eating of x amount of avos. Veganism isn't predicated on how many avos you eat. You don't have to eat any, if you so wish. 

 

It's interesting how many meat eaters feign concern for the 'environmental atom bomb' that avos are, but haven't sworn off avos themselves. 

 

Show me evidence that a vegan diet incl. avo has a larger net carbon footprint than a animal based diet, with or without avo, and I'll happily swear off avos. Happy reading. 

[Patchelicious]

Yoh. Vegans be RAGING hard.

As per that earlier post, maybe it’s if we are happier than the old hunter/gatherers, maybe hunters are just happier than gatherers.

[Goodbadugly]

Your perspective might change once you realise that "the vegan lifestyle" doesn't mandate the eating of x amount of avos. Veganism isn't predicated on how many avos you eat. You don't have to eat any, if you so wish. 

 

It's interesting how many meat eaters feign concern for the 'environmental atom bomb' that avos are, but haven't sworn off avos themselves. 

 

Show me evidence that a vegan diet incl. avo has a larger net carbon footprint than a animal based diet, with or without avo, and I'll happily swear off avos. Happy reading. 

Don't hold your breath. It won't.

I haven't sworn off anything. I dislike some foods though.

I have sworn at a few Jehovah's though.

I believe in a good balance.

[Gen]

Your perspective might change once you realise that "the vegan lifestyle" doesn't mandate the eating of x amount of avos. Veganism isn't predicated on how many avos you eat. You don't have to eat any, if you so wish.

 

It's interesting how many meat eaters feign concern for the 'environmental atom bomb' that avos are, but haven't sworn off avos themselves.

 

Show me evidence that a vegan diet incl. avo has a larger net carbon footprint than a animal based diet, with or without avo, and I'll happily swear off avos. Happy reading.

It is no secret that the demand for Avo is getting more..there is an interesting article about the US demand for Avo and how it is leading to more deforestation in Mexico to keep up with demand.

 

 

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-01/mexico-deforestation-for-avocados-much-higher-than-thought/7983012

 

 

And before you ask...I DON'T really like Avo so I hardly ever buy them.. I will occasionally buy for my husband.. but that may be once or twice a year and 2 at a time.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Gen

[Rigardt@Scott]

I do not like eating chocolate all day, every day, either

What's your point? We are speaking about people whose job it is to kill all day every day.

[Odinson]

Have a good weekend, all! Try a plant-based meal! 

 

[IceCreamMan]

Avos are not vegan according to an article I read recently.....yip, mind boggling..

[Goodbadugly]

Avos are not vegan according to an article I read recently.....yip, mind boggling..

Yes, but you do get vegan fruitcakes

[Gen]

Avos are not vegan according to an article I read recently.....yip, mind boggling..

Ja.. I understand there are different views on that..I read an article that some Oxford professor said millions of bees are brought into somewhere to pollinate and many die and are injures during the journey... but hey they aren't livestock I suppose so they can then eat the Avo cause a bee is just doing what a bee does..same with a LOT of fruit and Veg and a lot of those spices they use make their food palatable .

 

 

 

This is what confuses me about Veganism.. where does it begin and end.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Gen

[Blackbeard]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not some anti-capitalist. If I were, I definitely wouldn't be doing the work I am. 

 

Edit: Paddaman, you're quite the history/philosophy buff. What's your take on the viability of humanism and liberalism in the 21st century? 

Last heard among the 1st year BA students in the Bozzoli, Wits.

[Imploder]

I'm sorry Odinson, but I needed to post this:

 

[IceCreamMan]

Ja.. I understand there are different views on that..I read an article that some Oxford professor said millions of bees are brought into somewhere to pollinate and many die and are injures during the journey... but hey they aren't livestock I suppose so they can then eat the Avo cause a bee is just doing what a bee does..same with a LOT of fruit and Veg and a lot of those spices they use make their food palatable .

 

 

 

This is what confuses me about Veganism.. where does it begin and end.

So is a bees life no less worthy than a cow?

 

Guess one can be militant but if one becomes a vegan which already is an extreme then one should do so completely an not half way. Can’t have a clear conscience with the pain and suffering an death of bees. May as well eat meat then surely. ( assuming ones reason is animal related )

 

I am playing devils advocare here an admit that, just want to understand the rationale that it’s ok to hurt some animals but not others.

[Kranswurm]

Aren't all vegans fruitcakes?

Dont spoil it for me.I like fruitcake.....

[Gen]

So is a bees life no less worthy than a cow?

 

Guess one can be militant but if one becomes a vegan which already is an extreme then one should do so completely an not half way. Can’t have a clear conscience with the pain and suffering an death of bees. May as well eat meat then surely. ( assuming ones reason is animal related )

 

I am playing devils advocare here an admit that, just want to understand the rationale that it’s ok to hurt some animals but not others.

Yeah. I am not sure where the goalposts are..think with bees it is a matter of ethically sourced.. but here is the thing.. would any products really be ethically sourced.... it isn't as if someone is going around looking for avo trees that are naturally found.. no they are harvesting from farms..that means at some point ground was cleared to plant the avo trees effecting the natural habitat of the animals who were found there..take for instance what is happening in Mexico with the deforestation to make way for more Avo trees.. that is leading to water issues for animals lower down the river...and apparently a certain type of butterfly who's numbers are reducing rapidly because of it... and one could assume that this would be the case worldwide as the demand is higher than ever before..it would just be effecting different species.

 

Perhaps they just need to start being really honest with themselves and say.. it is actually about livestock and fish.

 

 

How can they with clear conscious go protest the meat eaters while enjoying those avo-bun burgers while sipping almond milk?

Edited December 1, 2018 by Gen

[Eldron]

Yeah. I am not sure where the goalposts are..think with bees it is a matter of ethically sourced.. but here is the thing.. would any products really be ethically sourced.... it isn't as if someone is going around looking for avo trees that are naturally found.. no they are harvesting from farms..that means at some point ground was cleared to plant the avo trees effecting the natural habitat of the animals who were found there..take for instance what is happening in Mexico with the deforestation to make way for more Avo trees.. that is leading to water issues for animals lower down the river...and apparently a certain type of butterfly who's numbers are reducing rapidly because of it... and one could assume that this would be the case worldwide as the demand is higher than ever before..it would just be effecting different species.

 

Perhaps they just need to start being really honest with themselves and say.. it is actually about livestock and fish.

 

 

How can they with clear conscious go protest the meat eaters while enjoying those avo-bun burgers while sipping almond milk?

 

I gotta say I don't understand the "absolutism" argument that is used against vegans.

 

Something along the lines of what Odi was saying earlier about being able to dismiss the entire vegan movement if you manage to prove that they've hurt one ant.

 

The truth is that nobody can live without directly or indirectly hurting insects/animals - "the system" that man has developed is consuming the planet.

 

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try though - veganism (or any reduction in your meat consumption) is one way. 

 

Surely it's better to stick around on this thread and see if there are any ideas you'd like to adopt rather than play "catch out the vegan". 

 

Avos and almonds are the perfect example - neither product was made for or happened because of vegans - they're farmed in a ethically questionable ways to feed anyone who will pay top dollar for a smashed sandwich and almond milk latte.

 

Doing a little research into where you food comes from is a great idea - it'll help preserve the planet which, if you have children, helps you even if you don't subscribe to it.