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Posted

Intervals.icu will be your friend in telling you your current form and fatigue.

Do yourself a favour and buy a proper carb drink like Cadence carbofuel or the likes as well as proper bars/gels/chews etc. 

 

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Posted

Well your summary is saying your fatigue is high and your form is very low, so you are bound to feel poked with nothing much to give.

 

Recovery is your best friend. Sleep too. so often forgotten.

 

You should be training 3 weeks hard and 1 week easy. Make sure your easy week is EASY. your body needs to recover and adapt.

Eat well before you go ride too, you will feel poorly riding "fasted" if you are not used to it, and your partner has made you work.

Eat and drink regularly on route too.

Your long weekend rides (3hours+) are what really push up your fitness CTL (and fatigue), short midweek sessions (1hour) are really just for maintenance and keep your fitness level.

Missed sessions or unforeseen breaks make your fitness CTL dip back down.

Consistency is everything.

 

Edit: Do away with the PVM's. they are hard to chew whilst riding. Make your own savory or sweet rice cakes, boiled baby potatoes, bananas, fruitcake etc. Real food is best.

Drink can be anything from expensive carb drinks, all they way down to Apple juice diluted in water.

Posted

Sorry for asking but how long have you been training for? In total that is, with and prior to the coach?

 

I'm no fitness guru but if you struggle to do a 60km ride followed by a 40km ride the next day then it sounds more to me like your base is lacking. TITS is very important, you'll not be able to by-pass that with a couple of hours of indoor riding a week.

 

My suggestion and again, this is my suggestion, use it, don't use it  :thumbup::

 

I would ditch the coach and go back to the drawing board. I would stop focusing on the numbers and start to get me an App that's actually a little more interactive than TR. 

 

I would download the Sufferfest or Zwift app and do their fitness test, then get a training plan tailored to your levels. By doing this you will be able to build a base fitness over time and be able to smash any training plan when you later decide to go down that road again. 

Posted

Sorry for asking but how long have you been training for? In total that is, with and prior to the coach?

 

I'm no fitness guru but if you struggle to do a 60km ride followed by a 40km ride the next day then it sounds more to me like your base is lacking. TITS is very important, you'll not be able to by-pass that with a couple of hours of indoor riding a week.

 

My suggestion and again, this is my suggestion, use it, don't use it  :thumbup::

 

I would ditch the coach and go back to the drawing board. I would stop focusing on the numbers and start to get me an App that's actually a little more interactive than TR. 

 

I would download the Sufferfest or Zwift app and do their fitness test, then get a training plan tailored to your levels. By doing this you will be able to build a base fitness over time and be able to smash any training plan when you later decide to go down that road again. 

Hi, i have been training since December 2018. I was on and off the bike for long periods before that due to Medical Reasons. Started to follow a program since Febr this year. I am very confused because my FTP went up drastically and i feel stronger on the bike.... i think its my partner that is so much stronger that keeps me out my "comfort zones" that causing more "problems" for me. Thanks for the advice...

Posted

Hi, i have been training since December 2018. I was on and off the bike for long periods before that due to Medical Reasons. Started to follow a program since Febr this year. I am very confused because my FTP went up drastically and i feel stronger on the bike.... i think its my partner that is so much stronger that keeps me out my "comfort zones" that causing more "problems" for me. Thanks for the advice..

 

-30 is -10 over 3 weeks so this isnt a massive red flag but it would be how you got to the point you at right now and reading your comments in all posts there is alot that can be corrected like your nutrition for starters. 

 

I hate interfering with what another coach is doing with you as that is your journey but for some reason I would like to try help you out this hole as you have been in it for a while and not getting the benefit you are wanting so something is missing here. 

 

Contact me off line from there if you interested in my 2c. 

 

Cheers

 

John

Posted

Contact this man and don't be too phased about my comments  :thumbup:

 

-30 is -10 over 3 weeks so this isnt a massive red flag but it would be how you got to the point you at right now and reading your comments in all posts there is alot that can be corrected like your nutrition for starters. 

I hate interfering with what another coach is doing with you as that is your journey but for some reason I would like to try help you out this hole as you have been in it for a while and not getting the benefit you are wanting so something is missing here. 

 

Contact me off line from there if you interested in my 2c. 

 

Cheers

John

 

But what I want to ask after this one was three questions: 

 

  • How many km's have you logged since you started back in Dec? If you don't have an exact figure that's also fine.
  • What's your HR doing when riding with your partner? % wise that is.
  • have you dropped a lot of weight when you started cycling again back in December?

 

 

Hi, i have been training since December 2018. I was on and off the bike for long periods before that due to Medical Reasons. Started to follow a program since Febr this year. I am very confused because my FTP went up drastically and i feel stronger on the bike.... i think its my partner that is so much stronger that keeps me out my "comfort zones" that causing more "problems" for me. Thanks for the advice...

Posted

Hi, i have been training since December 2018. I was on and off the bike for long periods before that due to Medical Reasons. Started to follow a program since Febr this year. I am very confused because my FTP went up drastically and i feel stronger on the bike.... i think its my partner that is so much stronger that keeps me out my "comfort zones" that causing more "problems" for me. Thanks for the advice...

 

Sounds to me like you went too hard on your weekend rides. FTP is a great metric for stationary/ indoor bike training, but when outside, you also need to take your weight into account - hence people refer to W/kg values (FTP/ weight) - if your partner has a significantly higher W/kg value, they are going to make you hurt on even the slightest of inclines. Slow down on the hillclimbs & speed up on the flats and you will go much further on the bike. Pushing even moderately hard on the climbs will quickly take you into an energy deficit that you will struggle to recover from - especially if you aren't fully fit and eating properly - save the high intensity work for the short indoor sessions and (short) races.

Posted

-30 is -10 over 3 weeks so this isnt a massive red flag but it would be how you got to the point you at right now and reading your comments in all posts there is alot that can be corrected like your nutrition for starters. 

 

I hate interfering with what another coach is doing with you as that is your journey but for some reason I would like to try help you out this hole as you have been in it for a while and not getting the benefit you are wanting so something is missing here. 

 

Contact me off line from there if you interested in my 2c. 

 

Cheers

 

John

Hi John , thanks for caring i will contact you right now!!!

Posted

 

Contact this man and don't be too phased about my comments  :thumbup:

 

 

But what I want to ask after this one was three questions: 

 

  • How many km's have you logged since you started back in Dec? If you don't have an exact figure that's also fine.
  • What's your HR doing when riding with your partner? % wise that is.
  • have you dropped a lot of weight when you started cycling again back in December?

 

Hi thanks i hope everybody can learn anything..............

I am more on the IDT than outside, my only outside rides are a 3 - 4 hour rides, Manageable at my Levels , i have done an 80km with 1000 climb , 65 with 800 climb. I was not that stuffed because i tried to keep to the suggested HR. Normally the next day my body is very sore , but i think it has more to do with recovery?? 

HR avg with my partner is a lot higher than my solo rides.

 

I have dropped about 6 kg from Dec to now..........by eating "cleaner"

Posted

Hi thanks i hope everybody can learn anything..............

I am more on the IDT than outside, my only outside rides are a 3 - 4 hour rides, Manageable at my Levels , i have done an 80km with 1000 climb , 65 with 800 climb. I was not that stuffed because i tried to keep to the suggested HR. Normally the next day my body is very sore , but i think it has more to do with recovery?? 

HR avg with my partner is a lot higher than my solo rides.

 

I have dropped about 6 kg from Dec to now..........by eating "cleaner"

 

The bold bit is your issue.

 

Assuming your coach has prescribed the right mix of high and low intensity rides, it is pretty important to try and stick to that. Doing a 3-4 hour ride at high intensity will really take it out of you. That's why with most training plans that I have seen, the high intensity rides are usually pretty short (like 1-2 hours max) and the long rides are meant to be done at low intensity to build your aerobic fitness. Doing the long rides at too high an intensity is actually counter-productive because then you can't put in quality training for a few days while you recover.

Posted

Clock more miles outside and I can guarantee you'll start to see a spike in your fitness levels and "tolerance" to your partners ferocious riding style. An IDT is a great tool, I mean if you have a look at my Strava stats you'll notice that I also clock more km's on the IDT than outdoors. 

 

The reason for this is that it's more convenient and I get results with less time spent. It's also safer than riding solo.

But what I've found is: Yes the IDT builds fitness quicker and you feel great but you have other things to contend with outside, things like wind, gradient, terrain and not even to mention getting the right cadence / rhythm on the bike. A coach can tweak the numbers and give you a training plan but if you fight the bike / struggle to get a rhythm on the bike you'll always work against yourself and have a hard time keeping up  :thumbup:

 

 

Hi thanks i hope everybody can learn anything..............

I am more on the IDT than outside, my only outside rides are a 3 - 4 hour rides, Manageable at my Levels , i have done an 80km with 1000 climb , 65 with 800 climb. I was not that stuffed because i tried to keep to the suggested HR. Normally the next day my body is very sore , but i think it has more to do with recovery?? 

HR avg with my partner is a lot higher than my solo rides.

 

I have dropped about 6 kg from Dec to now..........by eating "cleaner"

Posted

Hi thanks i hope everybody can learn anything..............

I am more on the IDT than outside, my only outside rides are a 3 - 4 hour rides, Manageable at my Levels , i have done an 80km with 1000 climb , 65 with 800 climb. I was not that stuffed because i tried to keep to the suggested HR. Normally the next day my body is very sore , but i think it has more to do with recovery??

HR avg with my partner is a lot higher than my solo rides.

 

I have dropped about 6 kg from Dec to now..........by eating "cleaner"

Something is wrong, cycling should never make you sore, let alone very sore.....unless you cramp, hit the ground or a parked car.

 

Start at square one

Bike set up, seat height - have you had these checked by an expert?

 

Listen to your body, don’t blindly follow your buddies

Posted

To me, as a very unscientific person, you should have ridden consistently for a year before trying to chase numbers.

 

There is no substitute to 'the basics'.

 

I would pack it in, ride consistently for a year, get strong, enjoy the process and THEN get a couch to tweak your base for better performance if you are so inclined.

 

But, what do I know.... John will have some more scientific answers.

Posted

I was in the same boat as you. I been on TR for 2 years now and initially i had some good improvements on FTP, but then they seem to plateau at a point and i struggled to improve let alone hold them on FTP tests. so over the months and lots of research i started using a Performance Management chart - first an excel one then Stravistix and now i use Intervals.icu.

 

One thing was evident from the PMC was that i was over training as i was only focused on the fitness line. Then reading up about how to actually read and use a PMC it was clear that my form was way too low. An online coach blog that i read says if your form is lower than -30 you are wasting your time and need rest. If your form goes lower than -30 on a ride then you need to rest until it falls into the Optimal region of -10 to -30.

 

Onto TR - If you read their forum and follow the FB posts there were a lot of guys complaining that they couldn't finish sessions, especially in build and specialty phase and the failures were almost all in the last 2 intervals of the session. Here once again a lot of reading the forum it was clear these guys had not followed the training plan for what it was designed. Many had started on build phase, because they already cyclists and felt they had enough base training ( I was one of them) So it was back to the drawing board.

 

6 weeks back i started the traditional base which is made up of 3 X 4 Week blocks. The first block is like watching paint dry, reviewing my PMC my fitness was actually dropping with my form sitting in the neutral zone (This was mid level @ 4 sessions per week some being 2hrs long). Many cyclists would say mmmmmm thats not working and up the intensity. 

 

But base training is not about FTP and huge improvement in fitness, its about Aerobic Endurance (Your fitness foundation) which is measured by de-coupling. If you have bad Aerobic Endurance you will struggle to maintain harder efforts. A house built on a crappy foundation will eventually collapse

 

I first measured my decoupling a few times with a very fancy spreadsheet downloaded from an online coach which was measuring me at between 20 - 25% after a few different tests. This same coach indicates that he doesn't allow his athletes to go into build phase until they deliver a consistent de-couipling result of below 5%. So de-coupling result is affected by a number of things like hydration, room temp, fatigue etc etc, this is why you need to do a number of tests to see where your de-coupling is measuring.

 

Since i started using Intervals.icu which measures de-coupling on all sessions over 2 hrs i have noted my results at being between 2.5% - 8% and i'm now entering my 7th week of traditional base 2. My fitness has dropped by about 5% and my form is still sitting in the neutral zone, but i don't care because that's not what i'm training. In addition the sessions keep you in your fat burning zone so the benefit is i've lost 7kg on 6 weeks which in itself has improved my w/kg without improving FTP. I hate these sessions as they are boring and some are 2hrs30 on an IDT, but i try to remain focused and just slog them out. My wife thinks i have a skelm in my paincave.

 

I've also looked at online coaches, and i'm not convinced for the money they charge they can make any significant impact on my performance over my self research and using apps like TR. In fact i suspect that many of them use the same tools i do which are freely available on the net and then charge you.

 

My advice to you

 

Make sure your trainer is set up properly in settings for TR (A few guys not being able to complete sessions had their trainer settings incorrect)

 

Do a new FTP test twice in 1 week and take the average as your FTP. (I use the step test & 2 X 8 min test, both deliver the same result)

 

Select the traditional base 1,2 & 3 whichever volume suits you and add them to your calendar. Once they added to your calendar you can go in and use the drag and drop feature to change sessions around to suit your week or month.

 

Resign yourself to the fact you in for 12 weeks (well at least the 1st 6 weeks) for some very long and boring sessions on the IDT, and complete the base training.

 

From there the build phases will start delivering good fitness and FTP results.

Posted

Thanks for all the comments, i had a chat with John and the news is not really what i wanted to hear......

 

I will read every bodies comments once i am home , thanks again John , THANKS HUB LAND......

 

Over and out till later !!!  :w00t:  :w00t:

Posted

Here's my PMC since starting TR Traditional Base - there are a few out rides so they indicate my form going into the green, but after that everything is in the grey zone (Bottom line)

 

Fitness slowly declining (Blue line)

 

Fatigue also declining (Top Line)

 

All expected

 

post-2304-0-51833100-1564409053_thumb.jpg

 

Here are my last De-coupling results - I cannot find the original but the lowest i got before starting base was 15.6 %

 

post-2304-0-11248400-1564409150_thumb.jpg

 

post-2304-0-46516700-1564409170_thumb.jpg

 

post-2304-0-06613500-1564409186_thumb.jpg

 

post-2304-0-10703900-1564409207_thumb.jpg

post-2304-0-26396900-1564409131_thumb.jpg

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