l4y3rcake Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 How would the child have a choice? FWIW - foetus to baby is when it's able to survive outside the womb without medical intervention, IMO. So my son that was born at 32 weeks, and had to spend 2 weeks on life support plus a further 3 weeks in NICU, was not a baby at that point but rather a foetus?
Stretch Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 Please don't degrade this into a religious debate
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 So my son that was born at 32 weeks, and had to spend 2 weeks on life support plus a further 3 weeks in NICU, was not a baby at that point but rather a foetus?Hmm. No. Clearly not. Gonna have to think a bit more about that "classification" as it isn't accurate / definitive enough and can get misconstrued, as we can see here. At 32 weeks though, it's kinda on the edge of viability, isn't it? And you chose to deliver, not even considering abortion, right? But yeah, I need to clarify that. Maybe to something that hinges on development of vital organs. But even then it'll fall short for some people. I myself am still unsure as to when I'd consider an abortion "immoral" or when a foetus "becomes" a baby but that doesn't have an effect on my views on necessity of choice.
Shebeen Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 Please don't degrade this into a religious debateHow can it not be a religious debate?
Stretch Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 How can it not be a religious debate?Because atheists can be against abortion and devoutly religious people can be for it. Arguing for and against abortion, and more importantly, the legality or criminality of abortion has nothing to do with religion. A person's beliefs may shape their views on abortion but that's it. I don't want this debate dragged into a discussion around religion which never end well on the hub
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 Because atheists can be against abortion and devoutly religious people can be for it. Arguing for and against abortion, and more importantly, the legality or criminality of abortion has nothing to do with religion. A person's beliefs may shape their views on abortion but that's it. I don't want this debate dragged into a discussion around religion which never end well on the hubThis
popcorn_skollie Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 11 pages and nobody posted the video of Alex Jones impersonating Governor Ralph Northam?What is the hub coming to?
Max Headroom Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 maybe because the religious variety have a set of values which includes not killing innocent people You just joking right !Ever watched the news - read any history ?
Robbie Stewart Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 I see I have become a religious zealot trying to force my (unwanted) opinion on people...hmmm I merely brought my Christian world-view into play since Odinson asked me why I believe / think / feel the way I do, and what I would like to see in (my) perfect world. (but then, from previous discussions, most of you, including but not limited to Odinson already knew that about me anyway...here's to hoping that despite my worldview vs yours, we can still have debates like this in future, about other stuff)At no time did I try and proselytize anyone, and that is not my intention. But I cannot make a coherent response to why I think the way I do without stating the reason.Also, for the record, just because I do not agree with something, does not mean to say that I will go fight against people who do not see the world from my perspective. I accept abortion will always be a part of society, and I accept that people will make use of it. I accept that many women get to dodge an otherwise nasty bullet by having an abortion. But that does not mean I have to particularly like it, or even approve it. And, from my own world-view, if I can make my discontent visible by merely withholding a vote based on my moral ethical worldview, then does that make me a fringe-zealot who should be shunned out of society?And Skubb's, as you are trying very hard to find out who I support, it is indeed VF+, but not for the reasons you pointed out. My worldview is most closely aligned with theirs, after having measured up all the parties involved. Again, I am not saying anyone else should vote for them, that's merely MY world-view. And from this perspective surely I am allowed to vote according to whom I would want to represent me, and not be coerced into supporting a system I don't agree with? As for making this a religious debate...if people see it as such, I can't do anything about that. To me, this is a debate about the sanctity of life, depending on which slant you take.Either life is sacred, or it's not.
forkie Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 You just joking right !Ever watched the news - read any history ?ok - you may have a point.
Skubarra Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 And Skubb's, as you are trying very hard to find out who I support, it is indeed VF+, but not for the reasons you pointed out. My worldview is most closely aligned with theirs, after having measured up all the parties involved. Again, I am not saying anyone else should vote for them, that's merely MY world-view. And from this perspective surely I am allowed to vote according to whom I would want to represent me, and not be coerced into supporting a system I don't agree with? Sorry, did not mean to pry into your political affiliations. Was just thinking out loud that if anti-abortion is a requirement for your vote (as you mentioned) you are really limiting your options to 1 party (now I know it's 2)
Shebeen Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 Because atheists can be against abortion and devoutly religious people can be for it. Arguing for and against abortion, and more importantly, the legality or criminality of abortion has nothing to do with religion. A person's beliefs may shape their views on abortion but that's it. I don't want this debate dragged into a discussion around religion which never end well on the hubja i know that, but practically speaking how do you not expect it to end up about religion when a lot of anti abortion views are religious in origin? It's like speaking about a cricket world cup in england but asking no one to mention the '99 donald klusener run-out incident. good luck with that
Shebeen Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 And Skubb's, as you are trying very hard to find out who I support, it is indeed VF+, but not for the reasons you pointed out. My worldview is most closely aligned with theirs, after having measured up all the parties involved. Again, I am not saying anyone else should vote for them, that's merely MY world-view. And from this perspective surely I am allowed to vote according to whom I would want to represent me, and not be coerced into supporting a system I don't agree with? #idontwanttogetinvolvedthiswasonawhatsappgroup3C20392E-7A50-43C0-823A-C64518F77C0D.jpegis it a leap of faith to then say that you are then:for the death sentencefor private gun ownershipagainst gay marriage or is abortion just the big issue for you?
Shebeen Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 guess this thread wouldn't be complete without the abortion olympic doping urban legendhttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/abortion-doping-real-practice/
Robbie Stewart Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 is it a leap of faith to then say that you are then:for the death sentencefor private gun ownershipagainst gay marriage or is abortion just the big issue for you? No, it is not a leap of faith to make such a conclusion. BUT... Did I say anything about the above?Did I offend anyone?Am I not allowed to have an opinion? This is why I was hesitant to bring my political perspective into play, as I rightly expected, as you have just proven, that that will become fodder for trying to label me? Again, I made no comment on the above. You on the other hand, did.
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