The Abortion Issue

[Kranswurm]

No, it is not a leap of faith to make such a conclusion. 

 

BUT...

 

Did I say anything about the above?

Did I offend anyone?

Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

 

This is why I was hesitant to bring my political perspective into play, as I rightly expected, as you have just proven, that that will become fodder for trying to label me?

 

Again, I made no comment on the above. You on the other hand, did.

It does flesh you out a little bit though

[Robbie Stewart]

It does flesh you out a little bit though

 

meaning?

[Odinson]

meaning?

 

Simply put, you can often (not always) extrapolate a person's view on one topic when having knowledge of his or her view on another topic. 

 

Like others have alluded to, christian fundamentalists will often be anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-gay, etc. etc. 

[Max Headroom]

These hub discussions --

The purpose of discussion and debate - is generally to explore the two sides with sensible examples, experiences, reasons, tests, research and common decency etc etc  - and then come to a  conclusion on the correct or most likely correct result.

 

If you are convinced the world is flat despite contrary evidence, or religion should be accepted without question or proof, or Abortion is murder - then you are not open to discussion - you are just present to give your belief that you have the correct superior answer.  

 

If one side states - in short "that is my opinion and you can't change it"

- then what is the point of the discussion ?

 

 -"I would not allow abortion. No further discussion."

Never have a discussion or argument if you are now willing to be persuaded that perhaps you are wrong. This is just trying to force others to accept your views.

 

- "Okay, I am not trying to change your opinion, as I am confident no-one will change mine.

i.e. Nothing you may say can be more accurate or correct that my Superior opinion.

 

- "I still do not agree with terminating for any reason that may not kill the mother."

Probably just a bad choice of words - what about the death of the foetus ?

Is it only physical killing ? What about mental state of the mother - regret, depression etc. suicide attempts ?

Or even feeble minded mentally incapable in the (origin) sex decision ?

And what about the pregnant lady in a Coma that was found to have been raped by hospital staff ?

 

- "religious variety have a set of values which includes not killing innocent people"

This statement deserves a whole book be written on how wrong this perception is.

(no it has not been written yet - its not the bible !)

 

- "Unless she is in a medical emergency state, where not aborting would kill her"

Further to the above, medicine is not an exact science - who knows if she will actually die - who decides ? - Doctors make mistakes every day - they will even amputate the wrong limb for you or remove a perfectly healthy organ. Moreover, the people who make the laws on who may/must decide - are also the people who make mistakes by sending people to prison for life (or god forbid, imposed a death penalty) only to find years later that they F^kt up with an innocent

 

- "If you don't want to become pregnant, don't have intercourse" problem solved.

Really !  You, your church minister, your wife, sister, mother, friends, the whole world population only have intercourse to become pregnant ?

 

Any further discussion with a people with the above views, is a waste of time.

 

Here is the right answer that someone has kindly provided for you :-

"The worst thing you can do in this world is try and push your beliefs on another person. There is simply no excuse at all for that."

[Eldron]

These hub discussions --

The purpose of discussion and debate - is generally to explore the two sides with sensible examples, experiences, reasons, tests, research and common decency etc etc - and then come to a conclusion on the correct or most likely correct result.

 

If you are convinced the world is flat despite contrary evidence, or religion should be accepted without question or proof, or Abortion is murder - then you are not open to discussion - you are just present to give your belief that you have the correct superior answer.

 

If one side states - in short "that is my opinion and you can't change it"

- then what is the point of the discussion ?

 

-"I would not allow abortion. No further discussion."

Never have a discussion or argument if you are now willing to be persuaded that perhaps you are wrong. This is just trying to force others to accept your views.

 

- "Okay, I am not trying to change your opinion, as I am confident no-one will change mine.

i.e. Nothing you may say can be more accurate or correct that my Superior opinion.

 

- "I still do not agree with terminating for any reason that may not kill the mother."

Probably just a bad choice of words - what about the death of the foetus ?

Is it only physical killing ? What about mental state of the mother - regret, depression etc. suicide attempts ?

Or even feeble minded mentally incapable in the (origin) sex decision ?

And what about the pregnant lady in a Coma that was found to have been raped by hospital staff ?

 

- "religious variety have a set of values which includes not killing innocent people"

This statement deserves a whole book be written on how wrong this perception is.

(no it has not been written yet - its not the bible !)

 

- "Unless she is in a medical emergency state, where not aborting would kill her"

Further to the above, medicine is not an exact science - who knows if she will actually die - who decides ? - Doctors make mistakes every day - they will even amputate the wrong limb for you or remove a perfectly healthy organ. Moreover, the people who make the laws on who may/must decide - are also the people who make mistakes by sending people to prison for life (or god forbid, imposed a death penalty) only to find years later that they F^kt up with an innocent

 

- "If you don't want to become pregnant, don't have intercourse" problem solved.

Really ! You, your church minister, your wife, sister, mother, friends, the whole world population only have intercourse to become pregnant ?

 

Any further discussion with a people with the above views, is a waste of time.

 

Here is the right answer that someone has kindly provided for you :-

"The worst thing you can do in this world is try and push your beliefs on another person. There is simply no excuse at all for that."

Thehub (as are most social media "debates") is far too binary. You're labelled either fanboy or h8r depending on your first post.

 

All is not lost though - changing of mind happens slowly and mainly when you are removed from your echo chamber. Having these discussions may add info that you will process at a later stage and slowly remould old/wrong/naive/uninformed opinions.

[forkie]

I conceded you may have a point. please, sir, may i carry on in the discussion?

 

- "religious variety have a set of values which includes not killing innocent people"

This statement deserves a whole book be written on how wrong this perception is.

(no it has not been written yet - its not the bible !)

 

 

Any further discussion with a people with the above views, is a waste of time.

 

 

[Stretch]

ja i know that, but practically speaking how do you not expect it to end up about religion when a lot of anti abortion views are religious in origin?

 

To be honest..I think a number of the anti abortion comment on here has come from hubbers who have been through IVF treatment. This is understandable because of what they have had to go through to conceive a child. This does not however devalue the opinion of those that have not gone through this, and their view on the life of a foetus/baby.

 

I feel I've said all I can say on the topic and will continue to respond if prompted but I have made my point. I hope that my viewpoint has made some think about things.. That's all

[Andrew Steer]

I conceded you may have a point. please, sir, may i carry on in the discussion?

I'll vouch for you Forks - even if our religious views greatly differ, I do always enjoy your input  :thumbup:And it sometimes even feels like you listen 

[forkie]

I'll vouch for you Forks - even if our religious views greatly differ, I do always enjoy your input  :thumbup:And it sometimes even feels like you listen 

my wife would disagree.....

[Andrew Steer]

my wife would disagree.....

#theuniversalnorm

[Shebeen]

To be honest..I think a number of the anti abortion comment on here has come from hubbers who have been through IVF treatment. This is understandable because of what they have had to go through to conceive a child. This does not however devalue the opinion of those that have not gone through this, and their view on the life of a foetus/baby.

 

So they're happy to "play God" when they want to create a child but don't want people to "play God" with an unplanned pregancy?!

 

Sounds a bit hypocritical to me if that's the case.

[Stretch]

So they're happy to "play God" when they want to create a child but don't want people to "play God" with an unplanned pregancy?!

 

Sounds a bit hypocritical to me if that's the case.

Let me get my popcorn.......

[Max Headroom]

I conceded you may have a point. please, sir, may i carry on in the discussion?

 

you have my blessing son - praise be

[SwissVan]

So they're happy to "play God" when they want to create a child but don't want people to "play God" with an unplanned pregancy?!

 

Sounds a bit hypocritical to me if that's the case.

Didn’t someone important once say:

Go forth and multiply?

[Red Robin]

 

So they're happy to "play God" when they want to create a child

 

I see fertility treatment much like other aspects of medicine that have evolved to assist people. Never thought of it as 'playing God' much like saving a life through a triple bypass or whatever isn't 'playing God ' because somebody who would have died without medical intervention didn't.

[Wayne Potgieter]

So they're happy to "play God" when they want to create a child but don't want people to "play God" with an unplanned pregancy?!

 

Sounds a bit hypocritical to me if that's the case.

This is a slippery slope.

 

How do you define playing god?