How apartheid killed Johannesburg's cycling culture

[OneLove]

Lol it must be funny for you to watch a bunch of mostly whiteys preaching about apartheid

 

Can you expand on this " its ongoing effects on today's generation of "natives"

 

Thanks

Very funny

 

I can see how it has been imprinted on my own family and community by the way they think and that same way of thinking is being passed down to the next generation which is probably the most crippling thing about the regime. I could probably go into detail as it is something that has amazed me for a long time but I'm just here to see if Nick can turn the water pressure up.

[Edition 507]

After some further investigation I have come to the conclusion that these 2 might be to blame

 

 

Considering this thread is all about skin pigmentation, I can't help looking at these two white people in the garden of Eden totally naked and not think about the sunburn they must have got on the delicate skin of their mammary glands and genitalia.

[King_Crispy]

That is the thing.

 

I work in municipal water supply and spend a large part of my days looking at aerial photos with plan views of water distribution networks. In every single town you can see the fingerprint of apartheid:

 

"This is Suburb A, with immaculate, well-engineered water networks, 6 bars of pressure and supply redundancy. Note also the wide tree-lined roads and large stand size. This is Suburb B, separated from suburb A (quite conveniently) by a railway line and an industrial area. They get their water from 1 stand pipe." I see examples of this every day. Then you extend that level of neglect to everything: education, electricity, roads, public transport, just about everything you can think of that shapes your daily life. Do people just think this is some unfortunate coincidence?

 

I do understand that so many white folks are tired of being made to feel guilty about apartheid, especially because most of us were just caught up in the machine. And it also shouldn't be used as a crutch to mask the current governments (obvious) shortcomings. But I also know far too many people who think apartheid played no role in the fact that their perception of a normal life means having a maid and a gardener who earn a few thousand rand a month. But hey, every society has have's and have-nots, and somebody's gotta look after the kids and clean the pool, am I right?

Did your little drone that you were flying explain the differences in any of the pictures it brought you?

That the taps supplying a constant 7bar of pressure are paid for? That the rate at which it is charged for is different? That the power is also charged for very differently?

Are you that much of a socialist dumbass that you would like to pay for a Tazz and drive a Merc?

 

None of the white suburbs get free electricity or water subsidies.

You get what you pay for

[Ashchest]

Wow, we have a-lot of communist members on this forum  

[Mamil]

My word. Hard to know where to start with this one.

 

Maybe with the signature meme ... justice governed by the interests of business.

 

I wonder Crispy, Do you think that's a good thing?

 

The Might makes Right school of moral reasoning.

 

 

 

 

Did your little drone that you were flying explain the differences in any of the pictures it brought you?

That the taps supplying a constant 7bar of pressure are paid for? That the rate at which it is charged for is different? That the power is also charged for very differently?

Are you that much of a socialist dumbass that you would like to pay for a Tazz and drive a Merc?

None of the white suburbs get free electricity or water subsidies.

You get what you pay for

[vert space]

The culture of commuting by bicycle is alive and active in Pretoria East. I live on the border of Pretoria East suburbs and Mamelodi township. I travel to work on a narrow side road called Libertas Road and drive at -40km/h because of oncoming commuters cycling towards Menlyn, Garsfontein etc. Travel on Solomon Mahlangu drive and it is the same story. I have witnessed 3 cyclist knocked in the last 12 months.

 

The LIONS in the area often have drives in the area asking for reflective vest, light, tubes, tyres etc.  Check out their FB page.

 

That said WHY THE HELL must cycle lanes be built around Menlyn Maine or Sandton for that matter. Is there a bicycle lane from Sandton to Alex. Unless it is for commuters who cannot afford their own vehicle, UBER or taxi fare its a waste of time. Cycling to these areas to use these bicycle lanes does not make sense. Build safe, wide cycle lanes out of the townships to accommodate the people that need them. Cyclist in PTA cycle on the Boschkop Road R25 Bapsfontein area and not in the Menlyn precinct.

 

Commuters need dedicated lanes from townships/suburbs into town then the culture of commuting to work will grow. As SA driving becomes more "Africanised" (people driving on pavements to get to the front/jumping red robots/chaotic 4ways) these lanes need to be minibus proof. I come from PMB and cant imagine anyone cycling on the Edendale Road into town. You will get knocked down. 

 

Somebody needs to check if there are still 9 million bicycles in Beijing. It could be that motor vehicles have since taken over 

[Wannabe]

Where was that sentiment when the wealth of the country was denied to 80 percent of the population?

 

 

 

It still is even today. The ANC did nothing to change these life's, they only improved "their own"

[Dirkitech]

Ok white people.  Settle down.. Your squibble about apartheid  just makes me teary eyed. 

 

As a "native" and "survivor"  of apartheid , I feel obliged to give you a view from the inside out. .

 

We couldnt ride where we wanted to, unless you liked being called a hotnot or a kaffir if you rode in certain areas. Or even worse, chased out. Luckily after 94 some white people learned to bite their tongues.

 

It makes sense that the rule of that day curbed peoples enthusiasm to ride their bikes to commute to work and back or for leisurely pleasure. The system just was not built to encourage non whites to have free and humane lifes.There are  enough examples mentioned on this thread alone to understand what the fuss is about.. If you still don't, I'm not here to convince you otherwise.

 

I remember an incident where I ended up being humiliated while riding with my buddies in town. Needless to say, we avoided town and try to keep it in the kazi.We felt safer there.

I also know of non white cyclists not being recognized in those years for their talent and effectively being denied their national colours because of their colour. 

 

There are many similar stories in all spheres of life, that we can tell you of how apartheid affected us and its ongoing effects on today's generation of "natives"

 

And just like clockwork, in every audience there are those that believe "it wasn't that bad". You have NO idea how bad it was unless you were on the receiving end of it. I actually hope that you would take that notion to a coloured or black community and explain it to them since you so strongly believe in it..Point out all the good things colonialism brought. 

 

And then those that think we should stop blaming apartheid... That's not your decision to make. We will decide when the drum is broken,of die ding is nou holrug gery. Your rights to apartheid has been revoked in 94 already...

 

Forward to today, Im just happy to be able to teach my kids the pleasure and freedom of cycling. And in general I'm just happy that they have freedom.

 

 

 Lekker trap

Your opinion and views are fair and just, like everyone else's in their own rights, and a worthwhile read. You describe it exactly as how I've learnt it to be from stories.

My question, however, is as follows: Did Apartheid cause you/the "natives" (presumably blacks?) to stop commuting to work by bicycle? Was it not because there was a motorised vehicle providing faster and/or more convenient transport at the same or cheaper travel rate?

 

PS: the bolded part is partly addressed below. The apartheid victims can blame it for their current circumstances, whether true or not, for the rest of their bloodlines, but as long as they refuse to take ownership of their own circumstances, they'll stay exactly where they are in life and mind.

 

 

Not a case of blaming you or me for apartheid, but recognising that, by doing what it did, apartheid created a legacy that will likely take centuries to undo. That is not excusing what the current excuse for a government is doing.

 

Apartheid was the crime that will keep on giving. The worst thing that the Nationalists did was to not properly educate vast numbers of the population, thus creating an ongoing challenge for generations to come.

Not an attack on you, but addressing what I occasionally hear.

I think centuries is exaggerated. If it takes centuries to get over things, then the people are either narrow minded or resistant to prosperity, as learning, accepting, growing and moving on will bring it.

Conversely, "millenials and gen z" have experienced an entirely different upbringing of "baby boomers" (the generation roughly present during apartheid). We're exposed to people in power with zero morality, zero accountability, zero integrity... I can keep going. Are we obliged to complain and blame other generations and cultures into our 15th-25th generation for the state of current affairs? That would be ignorant, pathetic and wholly disproportionate. I don't intend to be part of the crutch-cult.

edit: to tie this into the topic, am I obliged to blame the current race in power because I feel unsafe to cycle in most areas for either work or leisure?

[Mamil]

Ja this is a terrible truth. And I think it is going to get worse and potentially never get better. It's appalling.

 

No doubt though - we are in better shape than we were under apartheid. At the very least because civil war and complete economic collapse was most probably outcome had apartheid persisted. Also we now have a largely free press and a functioning judiciary so that's two good things.

 

On the down side - education for all but the upper socio economic groups is shambolic. The criminality of the government facilitated by the inscrutable power relationships inherent in the patronage culture of the ANC is taking us to the edge of calamity. Every single parastatal is bankrupt and no meaningful plans in place to remedy this. Our urban and rural areas alike are plagued with violent crime --- we all know the litany of horrors we are facing.

 

And I can say these things in a public forum and feel safe that I'm not going to be arrested for it, have my home bugged etc. There's freedom of speech which we simply didn't have before, freedom of association, and all manner of other civil liberties .... the point being that as  society we have definitely made progress since 94. 

 

But I am finding it harder and harder to find optimism.

 

I take heart in little anecdotal stories of hope - the housekeeper I employ had an ectopic pregnancy that the public health system picked up and removed, saving her life. In doing so they discovered that she was in the early stages of a rare but highly treatable cancer which they then treated and she is in remission for 3 years now. Under apartheid, it's highly probable the ectopic would have killed her and I would say certain that the cancer would have.

 

But will we get better than we are now. I don't think so. Who's to blame for that?

 

Apartheid? ANC? 

 

Maybe each and every one of us.

 

 

 

It still is even today. The ANC did nothing to change these life's, they only improved "their own"

[Mamil]

This is an excellent point. 

 

 

That said WHY THE HELL must cycle lanes be built around Menlyn Maine or Sandton for that matter. Is there a bicycle lane from Sandton to Alex. Unless it is for commuters who cannot afford their own vehicle, UBER or taxi fare its a waste of time. Cycling to these areas to use these bicycle lanes does not make sense. Build safe, wide cycle lanes out of the townships to accommodate the people that need them. Cyclist in PTA cycle on the Boschkop Road R25 Bapsfontein area and not in the Menlyn precinct.

 

 

[Dirkitech]

snip

That said WHY THE HELL must cycle lanes be built around Menlyn Maine or Sandton for that matter. Is there a bicycle lane from Sandton to Alex. Unless it is for commuters who cannot afford their own vehicle, UBER or taxi fare its a waste of time. Cycling to these areas to use these bicycle lanes does not make sense. Build safe, wide cycle lanes out of the townships to accommodate the people that need them. Cyclist in PTA cycle on the Boschkop Road R25 Bapsfontein area and not in the Menlyn precinct.

 

snip

Not sure if the bolded part is a question, but when I was there in 2017, it appeared that they're building a partial one (bikes and peds mixed), at least around the bridge crossing the M1. Not sure whether or how it materialised. edit: next to Innesfree park, that is.

 

I would be happy if there was a safe, dedicated cycle lane from Jhb South through Jhb Central, to connect the South and North with safe (cars and muggings) bicycle access.

[RocknRolla]

There is a dedicated pedestrian/cycle bridge from Wynberg to Sandton, over the M1

 

The red line top of the page, shows the dedicated Rea Vaya bus bridge (not in operation, been in construction for lots of years) 

 

The line below is the dedicated pedestrian/cycle bridge over the M1 next to Grayston drive.

 

This is well utilised. Pedestrians, recyclers and cyclists. The cycle lane then continues under the grayston bridge, over a very dangerous intersection, up the hill in Katherine street. This is a painted sidewalk, with lamp posts and other obstructions aplenty.

 

This then veers off to a very steep uphill that dies a sudden death at the old Villiage walk (dunnow what it's called now) shopping centre.

 

In front of nedbank and Deutche bank, the lane contiunes, but is currently being used for Uber and Metered taxi parking.

 

It's a shambles.

 

Edit: Attachment attached.

[MTBeer]

After some further investigation I have come to the conclusion that these 2 might be to blame

 

Fark, if I was an all-powerful, omnipotent being, I would have created a hotter Eve than that. Suppose it was his first attempt and he only hit peak hotness 6000 years and x billion women later.

[RocknRolla]

I travel to work on Beyers Naude, by motorcycle.

There are a large number of commuters that use this road to head towards town. The taxis and other yellow-lane driving hooligans force the commuters off the road, or into the dual line of cars. This is an extremely dangerous road for cyclists to use. I avoid it on bicycle at all costs.

 

Beyers Naude being an arterial road towards the highway, as well as into town (eventually) is the only way for these commuters to get from Zandspruit accross the N1. (crossing the N1 bridge is even worse. The culture is there, the infrastructure is lacking. 

 

Hendrik Potgieter is another example where commuters have to ride the gauntlet to get to their destinations.

 

Create Segregated (like properly segregated, not some rumble strip like the Rea Vaya bumps) cycle ways on the arterial routes, and this will already entice more people (even recreational cyclists) to commute to work.

 

Currently the Black to white commuter ratio on Beyers Naude at 7am in the morning is about 20:1 

[Skubarra]

Your opinion and views are fair and just, like everyone else's in their own rights, and a worthwhile read. You describe it exactly as how I've learnt it to be from stories.

My question, however, is as follows: Did Apartheid cause you/the "natives" (presumably blacks?) to stop commuting to work by bicycle? Was it not because there was a motorised vehicle providing faster and/or more convenient transport at the same or cheaper travel rate?

 

It's a pity that we always have to debate in absolutes. Seems apartheid can only be 100% to blame (like implied by the clickbait title of the article but not the article itself) or not at all. (And if you can disprove one extreme then by deduction you have proofed the other extreme)

 

History doesn't work like that, clearly the development of motorised vehicles and mass transit also played a role (as mentioned many times by just about everybody on this thread), the disruption caused by mass removals and apartheid also played a big part. It doesn't have to be only one or the other.

[Mamil]

I think this either or thinking is a big part of the problem in these discussions. A lot of it picots around this word blame that is so frequently present in many of the posts. Blame impkies guilt which provokes defense... we should really substitute this word with a word like understanding.

 

It's a pity that we always have to debate in absolutes. Seems apartheid can only be 100% to blame (like implied by the clickbait title of the article but not the article itself) or not at all. (And if you can disprove one extreme then by deduction you have proofed the other extreme)

 

History doesn't work like that, clearly the development of motorised vehicles and mass transit also played a role (as mentioned many times by just about everybody on this thread), the disruption caused by mass removals and apartheid also played a big part. It doesn't have to be only one or the other.