2020 Tour de France

[J Wakefield]

And he won't start tomorrow as he has concussion ..

 

I just can not believe they let him finish the stage.. STUPID....

 

Yes they need to get their concussion protocol sorted.

 

I actually didn't see this live.. boggels the mind thay they just put him om the bike to continue

 

 

https://twitter.com/mrconde/status/1304531849885163523?s=19

No one at the time knew he was concused

Things are very different in the moment

This happens in multiple sports

All the time

To be assessed post game, race etc

Edited September 12, 2020 by J Wakefield

[J Wakefield]

Eurosport/GCN are having a pretty interesting discussion regarding concussion due to them thinking that the police officer who guarded Bardet while he was getting up from his crash was indicated he hit his head. I wonder what everyone thinks about it: should guys get a concession test if they had a fall and a head injury is suspected? Personally I also wouldn't mind hearing John Wakefield's opinion on this.

 

Personally I think a way does need to be found to check any potential head injuries as a result of a crash and ideally it should be done quickly enough to allow the rider to get back should the doctor consider him to be ok to race on. How exactly will probably require a bit of a balance between medical necessity and allowing fair competition without stretching organisers resources.

I have a long history of athletes and concussions with my background being mx and similar sports, when you look at that crash and situation no one did anything wrong with Bardet. Hats off to the guy noting the impact but things are very different in the moment and to pull a guy based off 1 person noting. I’ve been there, calls are very hard to make in that moment and to tell a rider to not continue is another thing again in that moment Incase.

 

The positive is that he went for testing post stage, which the facilities here are good and very professional and he has been pulled from the race. Right call, right protocols.

 

Riders safety like this comes above all, but it’s easy to sit here and blame everyone for being irresponsible for letting Bardet continue for the stage.

 

It’s like saying we were irresponsible for allowing Formolo to continue with a broken collarbone. We only knew once the stage was over and medical assessed him. Yet he finished the stage.

Edited September 12, 2020 by J Wakefield

[Mntboy]

 

 

I have a long history of athletes and concussions with my background being mx and similar sports, when you look at that crash and situation no one did anything wrong with Bardet. Hats off to the guy noting the impact but things are very different in the moment and to pull a guy based off 1 person noting. I’ve been there, calls are very hard to make in that moment and to tell a rider to not continue is another thing again in that moment Incase.

 

The positive is that he went for testing post stage, which the facilities here are good and very professional and he has been pulled from the race. Right call, right protocols.

 

Riders safety like this comes above all, but it’s easy to sit here and blame everyone for being irresponsible for letting Bardet continue for the stage.

 

It’s like saying we were irresponsible for allowing Formolo to continue with a broken collarbone. We only knew once the stage was over and medical assessed him. Yet he finished the stage.

Thanks for the clarification and viewpoint John. Is there other protocols regarding concussion that teams have like a baseline test for example, just to ensure that there isn't a problem that's building with any of the athletes? Just curious with regards to that.

 

My thing is I'd like to see that there's a way for the riders to get checked out, like a series of designated medical stops/tents perhaps where a rider could stop if he feels he needs it. Just to use Bardet and Formolo as an example where they could've stopped and said "I think something's wrong." They get examined and treated or pulled from the race depending on the exact nature of the injury. Would there be space within cycling for something like that?

[J Wakefield]

Thanks for the clarification and viewpoint John. Is there other protocols regarding concussion that teams have like a baseline test for example, just to ensure that there isn't a problem that's building with any of the athletes? Just curious with regards to that.

 

My thing is I'd like to see that there's a way for the riders to get checked out, like a series of designated medical stops/tents perhaps where a rider could stop if he feels he needs it. Just to use Bardet and Formolo as an example where they could've stopped and said "I think something's wrong." They get examined and treated or pulled from the race depending on the exact nature of the injury. Would there be space within cycling for something like that?

 

 

There are no medical tents on route, there is a race Doctor 2(if memory is right) ambulances following the convoy for that should there be a concern or question if something is wrong. So yes, there is medical on route.

[Gen]

No one at the time knew he was concused

Things are very different in the moment

This happens in multiple sports

All the time

To be assessed post game, race etc

Not entirely so with all other sports a baseline check is done and player pulled from the game .. we see it often in football.. and even if the player continues it is stopped relatively fast if there are any concerns.. if a player stumbled like Bardet did he would not have been allowed to continue..think the thing with cycling is that the race can't be stopped while a rider is checked out..and time is of the essence.

 

This is FIFA's on field Concussion protocol

 

 

 

 

vs

 

UCI

Edited September 12, 2020 by Gen

[Mntboy]

There are no medical tents on route, there is a race Doctor 2(if memory is right) ambulances following the convoy for that should there be a concern or question if something is wrong. So yes, there is medical on route.

I am aware of the race doctors in the cars but I was thinking of the medical tents as being additional to that because the cars can't always get to riders due to either the race situation or the route doesn't allow for the cars to be able to get past the riders to get to the injured one's.

[Gen]

I am aware of the race doctors in the cars but I was thinking of the medical tents as being additional to that because the cars can't always get to riders due to either the race situation or the route doesn't allow for the cars to be able to get past the riders to get to the injured one's.

Ambulances are normally stationed not far from where accidents are likely to happen.. we saw with the crash of Evenepoel how fast they arrived.

[Gen]

Fans banned from Tour de France starts and finishes in coronavirus red zones

 

https://t.co/DCxHEXPAJG #TdF2020 https://t.co/CARMtnApYX

 

 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2622W9?__twitter_impression=true

 

 

More on it

 

https://www.cyclingnews.com/amp/news/fans-banned-from-tour-de-france-starts-and-finishes-in-coronavirus-red-zones/?__twitter_impression=true

Edited September 12, 2020 by Gen

[Frosty]

Have a listen to this, where Ian Boswell explains about his concussion and the limited protocols.

 

This episode features an extensive interview with Ian Boswell, the American who spent seven seasons in the World Tour with Team Sky and Katusha-Alpecin. Boswell has been forced to retire from racing at the age of just 28 because of a series of concussions suffered in crashes – the most recent and most serious being sustained during the Italian stage race Tirreno-Adriatico last March.

 

Boswell talks about the lasting after-effects of the crash, his determination to resume training against doctor’s orders, why he has had to bring the curtain down on his professional racing career and what he plans to do next. He also discusses the difficulty professional cycling has in developing an effective concussion protocol when races are fast moving and the riders want to rejoin the peloton as soon as they can.

 

https://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/ian-boswell-on-concussion-and-retirement

Edited September 12, 2020 by Frosty

[Eldron]

This has been a strange tour - the top 10 are all within 2 mins of each other but somehow it seems a foregone conclusion who the winner will be already.

 

Bring on tomorrow!!!!

[Shebeen]

Not entirely so with all other sports a baseline check is done and player pulled from the game .. we see it often in football.. and even if the player continues it is stopped relatively fast if there are any concerns.. if a player stumbled like Bardet did he would not have been allowed to continue..think the thing with cycling is that the race can't be stopped while a rider is checked out..and time is of the essence.

 

This is FIFA's on field Concussion protocol

 

 

On-field-assessment.jpg

 

vs

 

UCI

So basically every time someone has a lie down we stop the whole peleton so the doctors can assess him before making the correct call?

[Shebeen]

No one at the time knew he was concused

Things are very different in the moment

This happens in multiple sports

All the time

To be assessed post game, race etc

I'm no doctor, but that video clip of him losing his balance is not a positive diagnosis of concussion.

 

His helmet looked fine.

 

Get back on your bike, get riding and discuss with the team doctor over the radio. If they could tell that he was clearly in lala land then, and only then do I think this was handled badly to keep him riding.

[Gen]

So basically every time someone has a lie down we stop the whole peleton so the doctors can assess him before making the correct call?

That's not what I said at all

 

I also mentioned that it is different with cycling where time is of the essense..

 

Do I think their roadside protocol should be improved yes i do.

 

John suggested that the protocol is similar in different sports.. it is not.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Gen

[Shebeen]

That's not what I said at all

 

I also mentioned that it is different with cycling where time is of the essense..

 

Do I think their roadside protocol should be improved yes i do.

 

John suggested that the protocol is similar in different sports.. it is not.

I was being ridiculous because there is no merit in comparing to soccer ballerinas who need magic spray to convince them that the oww weee they got does not need a trip to A&E.

 

Put the decision into the hands of the team doctor, if they willingly allow a prize asset to endanger their lives for the sake of today's race then that's they reputation and licence at risk. To suggest that people need to be assessed roadside before continuing is just not practical.

[Eldron]

I see no reason why a rider and his bike can't be popped into a modified ambulance that trails the bunch while he is checked out when there is a suspected concussion. That gives medical staff time to check him out without the crazy stress of having to chase back to the bunch.

 

If someone tries to game the system and fakes a concussion crash to have a few rest minutes in the ambulance then give them a medal and pop them back in the bunch.

[Mntboy]

I see no reason why a rider and his bike can't be popped into a modified ambulance that trails the bunch while he is checked out when there is a suspected concussion. That gives medical staff time to check him out without the crazy stress of having to chase back to the bunch.

 

If someone tries to game the system and fakes a concussion crash to have a few rest minutes in the ambulance then give them a medal and pop them back in the bunch.

Mmmmmmm that sounds like a fairly ingenious solution. Although if someone tries to game the system they shouldn't get medal they should get DQ'ed for being a jerk.

 

In all honesty I just want a concussion protocol that works with how the sport is, and makes sure that there isn't other names added to that of Ian Boswell. It is a tragedy that he had to retire at such a young age - I really don't want to see anyone else added because nobody was willing to ask whether or not the system in place actually works or not.