DURA-ACE 9100 VS SRAM RED 22

[Julz]

Ill take Mechanical aswell.Dont need any of that fancy schmanzyness.Just more things to go wrong,i like simplicity.

[sirmoun10goat]

Ill take Mechanical aswell.Dont need any of that fancy schmanzyness.Just more things to go wrong,i like simplicity.

 

Is there really less to go wrong with mechanical? barrel adjusters, cable stretch and wear, etc

 

How long is a piece of string?

 

I think the right basis for a decision depends on what you feel you are more capable of handling/repairing/servicing yourself

[Darryllk]

Swopsies:

I have ultegra Di2 for SRAM Etap...any takers ????

[MDJ]

Forgetting what can theoretically go wrong I've never had anything ACTUALLY go wrong with my electronic shifting in over 20 000kms - its been perfect every day and way less maintenance than mechanical. In fact the mechanical has had more 'issues'.

 

The mechanical shifting was not bad, but every now and then I'd get rubbing, be playing with adjusters and have to re-index or replace frayed cables etc. When I go back to the mechanical on my MTB I curse, at least SRAM multi-shift works ok - but its like gearing on a Truck v.s a Ferrari. it feels way slower and more clunky - my next upgrade is definitely MTB electronic.

 

The only reason for going mechanical on an upgrade would be initial cost ... and ok maybe loadshedding too 

[Furbz]

GCN did a blind test between Dura Ace and 105 and weren't able to spot much difference. But those were the latest incarnations, and they're all pretty good. Admittedly, groupsets were brand new, so wear and tear may show wild variations between them...

 

i just put 105 on my indoor trainer bike and was blown away by how well it works.

[DieselnDust]

Forgetting what can theoretically go wrong I've never had anything ACTUALLY go wrong with my electronic shifting in over 20 000kms - its been perfect every day and way less maintenance than mechanical. In fact the mechanical has had more 'issues'.

 

The mechanical shifting was not bad, but every now and then I'd get rubbing, be playing with adjusters and have to re-index or replace frayed cables etc. When I go back to the mechanical on my MTB I curse, at least SRAM multi-shift works ok - but its like gearing on a Truck v.s a Ferrari. it feels way slower and more clunky - my next upgrade is definitely MTB electronic.

 

The only reason for going mechanical on an upgrade would be initial cost ... and ok maybe loadshedding too 

Sounds like you convinced yourself it is a better solution for you,.. Chapeau

[Furbz]

So i own 11S V3 Record EPS and its fantastic.

changes are positive and quick. the one irk is it changes are slightly noisy as it over shifts then shifts back slightly - the shift back takes slightly to long IMO.

i am also not a fan of the Campag conventional thumb shifter or the ergos.

the brake levers don't angle nicely outward like Sram or Shimano do, making them less ergonomic at least for me. the thumb shifter is flat out stupid in todays electronic shifting world and in my mind makes it obsolete. its poorly placed and hard to grab when in the drops.  

still it is a gorgeous groupset to look at and ride. 

 

i have also had Sram Red Etap. i loved it.

i only got rid of it as it was wasted on a bike i was not riding enough. i would have kept it had my Record EPS not looked so good my on RITTE.

it runs silent, changes are positive and the "different" way of shifting is a total non-issue. in fact i think its more intuitive than conventional shifting once you are used to it.

if i were building up a bike right now it would be Red Etap AXS hands down. no cables, and fully movable in a matter of minutes (so if you upgrade to any bike you know it will fit).

it also looks fantastic! but at R43k ex import costs its not cheap.

 

Shimano

i have limited experience of their early Di2 ultegra.

it was really nice at the time. i can only imagine the newer Di2 is superb.

it certainly looks good. i would have no issue spending money on it, but for some reason i always feel its looks a little drab, like it could be more special? it does not turn me on the same way as Campy.

Horses for courses!

 

 

in the end it comes down to what turns you on. 

which set is going to make you love looking at your bike the most, and make you smile each time you see your bike.

i honestly think performance differences between groupsets these days are negligible. so go with what you can afford. what you like looking at most, and maybe what you think is best.

 

this post gets points for being long and mostly unhelpful

Edited October 17, 2019 by Furbz

[Furbz]

 

The mechanical shifting was not bad, but every now and then I'd get rubbing, be playing with adjusters and have to re-index or replace frayed cables etc. When I go back to the mechanical on my MTB I curse, at least SRAM multi-shift works ok - but its like gearing on a Truck v.s a Ferrari. it feels way slower and more clunky - my next upgrade is definitely MTB electronic.

 

 

this 

[Schnavel]

So i own 11S V3 Record EPS and its fantastic.

changes are positive and quick. the one irk is it changes are slightly noisy as it over shifts then shifts back slightly - the shift back takes slightly to long IMO.

i am also not a fan of the Campag conventional thumb shifter or the ergos.

the brake levers don't angle nicely outward like Sram or Shimano do, making them less ergonomic at least for me. the thumb shifter is flat out stupid in todays electronic shifting world and in my mind makes it obsolete. its poorly placed and hard to grab when in the drops.  

still it is a gorgeous groupset to look at and ride. 

 

i have also had Sram Red Etap. i loved it.

i only got rid of it as it was wasted on a bike i was not riding enough. i would have kept it had my Record EPS not looked so good my on RITTE.

it runs silent, changes are positive and the "different" way of shifting is a total non-issue. in fact i think its more intuitive than conventional shifting once you are used to it.

if i were building up a bike right now it would be Red Etap AXS hands down. no cables, and fully movable in a matter of minutes (so if you upgrade to any bike you know it will fit).

it also looks fantastic! but at R43k ex import costs its not cheap.

 

Shimano

i have limited experience of their early Di2 ultegra.

it was really nice at the time. i can only imagine the newer Di2 is superb.

it certainly looks good. i would have no issue spending money on it, but for some reason i always feel its looks a little drab, like it could be more special? it does not turn me on the same way as Campy.

Horses for courses!

 

 

in the end it comes down to what turns you on. 

which set is going to make you love looking at your bike the most, and make you smile each time you see your bike.

i honestly think performance differences between groupsets these days are negligible. so go with what you can afford. what you like looking at most, and maybe what you think is best.

 

this post gets points for being long and mostly unhelpful

 

Good summary!

 

I have never tried Campy due to the prohibitive price, so can't really comment here.

 

I currently have Sram red Etap on my road bike, Ultergra di2 on tt bike and my wife's road bike.

 

I have just put XTR/Ultegra on my gravel bike and what an improvement in shifting in comparison to the Force CX1 it replaced. Shifting is so smooth, easily adjustable and always reliable.

 

But let's be frank, electronic gears are a nice to have - the mechanical gears are so great these days. However, I still maintain that once you have used electronic gears, you will never want to go back to mechanical. The biggest difference is the front derailleur. Rear shifting is similar, but the consistency for the front derailleur is what makes all of the difference. My wife used to struggle with the throw required for the front derailleur (small hands) and the shifting was never great. With her Di2, shifting is accurate, quick and reliable everytime. 

[Furbz]

Good summary!

 

I have never tried Campy due to the prohibitive price, so can't really comment here.

 

I currently have Sram red Etap on my road bike, Ultergra di2 on tt bike and my wife's road bike.

 

I have just put XTR/Ultegra on my gravel bike and what an improvement in shifting in comparison to the Force CX1 it replaced. Shifting is so smooth, easily adjustable and always reliable.

 

But let's be frank, electronic gears are a nice to have - the mechanical gears are so great these days. However, I still maintain that once you have used electronic gears, you will never want to go back to mechanical. The biggest difference is the front derailleur. Rear shifting is similar, but the consistency for the front derailleur is what makes all of the difference. My wife used to struggle with the throw required for the front derailleur (small hands) and the shifting was never great. With her Di2, shifting is accurate, quick and reliable everytime. 

 

 

lets not forget the total absence of shifter cable maintenance and the ever present cable stick/drag.

i agree that mechanical with new cables is just as good and electronic, but i will never go back to faffing with shifter cables ever again. what a nightmare. and good riddance to it!

[Mopkop]

Id go Sram red, I see Merlin has got it i stock and they ship to SA.

 

I had Force22, then Etap now R8000.

 

R8000 is Excellent but I feel Force22 is even better, its a pity you cannot get force anymore like you used to. The mechanical feel of Sram is just so much better than Shimano

 

Etap is a lazy mans groupset cos its so flippen easy to operate.

 

If you have to money, Etap if not then Red22 ALL THE WAY!

 

Its a schlep that the local support is almost non existent and hence Shimano does so well in South Africa

 

Your Chapter2 will look great laced in Red22!!!

[DieselnDust]

Id go Sram red, I see Merlin has got it i stock and they ship to SA.

 

I had Force22, then Etap now R8000.

 

R8000 is Excellent but I feel Force22 is even better, its a pity you cannot get force anymore like you used to. The mechanical feel of Sram is just so much better than Shimano

 

Etap is a lazy mans groupset cos its so flippen easy to operate.

 

If you have to money, Etap if not then Red22 ALL THE WAY!

 

Its a schlep that the local support is almost non existent and hence Shimano does so well in South Africa

 

Your Chapter2 will look great laced in Red22!!!

Dude trust me , the local support is excellent. I don’t why this myth continues that SRAM is poorly supported. I think it’s just the shops that are full of you know what. I’ve very seldom needed to warranty a SRAM part but the few times I did it was a smooth and quick process.

Coolheat on the other hand.....

I’ve had to warranty nearly my entire R9000 group set and each time I had to clench teeth as they first tired to weasel out of the warranty.

 

Lastly those Shimano fear cables that you Have to use or your warranty is void will actually break your shifter eventually. Good luck getting them to warranty the shifter if you’re one day outside the warranty even though it’s an own issue.

[Mopkop]

Dude trust me , the local support is excellent. I don’t why this myth continues that SRAM is poorly supported. I think it’s just the shops that are full of you know what. I’ve very seldom needed to warranty a SRAM part but the few times I did it was a smooth and quick process.

Coolheat on the other hand.....

I’ve had to warranty nearly my entire R9000 group set and each time I had to clench teeth as they first tired to weasel out of the warranty.

 

Lastly those Shimano fear cables that you Have to use or your warranty is void will actually break your shifter eventually. Good luck getting them to warranty the shifter if you’re one day outside the warranty even though it’s an own issue.

Ive never needed to warranty my Sram components, My "poorly supported" argument is stock, availability and price.

 

Maybe it is the shops who prefer stocking and dealing with Shimano that's giving Sram a bad rep

[DieselnDust]

Ive never needed to warranty my Sram components, My "poorly supported" argument is stock, availability and price.

 

Maybe it is the shops who prefer stocking and dealing with Shimano that's giving Sram a bad rep

Very much so. When I bought my DA group I was sold on it by my lbs. I ended up waiting 6 weeks for coolheat to get a left hand shifter and front brake caliper. Both subsequently failed under warranty. And again I has to wait for stock. OEM warranty issues get dealt with first it seems.

With my force group no warranty has been needed. My juicy brakes and one guide lever were warrantied within 3 days.

Guess what. That was done through a shop that loves sram

 

Consider that Shimano is a very strong brand. Selling it is easy even when the product is crap. Lbs owners need sales or else they don’t have a business. They will always have a bias toward a product that is easier to sell. That does not mean that the product is the best. It certainly works. So many bikes have Shimano so to the layman that means it’s the best.

Functionally campagnolo and SRAM are better. There’s more engineering in their products and less pandering to marketing needs. So the brands appeal to different customers.

Edited October 17, 2019 by DieselnDust

[Veebee]

Id go Sram red, I see Merlin has got it i stock and they ship to SA.

 

I had Force22, then Etap now R8000.

 

R8000 is Excellent but I feel Force22 is even better, its a pity you cannot get force anymore like you used to. The mechanical feel of Sram is just so much better than Shimano

 

Etap is a lazy mans groupset cos its so flippen easy to operate.

 

If you have to money, Etap if not then Red22 ALL THE WAY!

 

Its a schlep that the local support is almost non existent and hence Shimano does so well in South Africa

 

Your Chapter2 will look great laced in Red22!!!

 

The C2 does indeed look good with Sram.

 

I'll chat more with my Lbs and hear what they have to say about Sram, they do deal with both brands a fair bit and have seen them pushing out more Sram builds in recent months so can only be a good thing.

 

To be honest, I was set on using Red22 from the time I started thinking about this build.

[Mopkop]

The C2 does indeed look good with Sram.

 

I'll chat more with my Lbs and hear what they have to say about Sram, they do deal with both brands a fair bit and have seen them pushing out more Sram builds in recent months so can only be a good thing.

 

To be honest, I was set on using Red22 from the time I started thinking about this build.

Like we say in Cape Town

 

DALA WHAT YOU MUST!!!!